341–350 of 528 posts
Realize we literally cannot stop making plastic. If we did, modern civilization would collapse. All PCBs and electric devices have some type of plastic in them, including wires and plugs. The only way to read this comment is via plastic.
The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…
Maybe the solution is better labeling. No, we are awash in labels already and I am sick of everything having a legal treatise attached to it. Labels just throw the problem back in the laps of consumers, an approach which clearly does not work.
Some labels are good and informative. Some labels are just a way for corporations to blame consumers for what consumers cannot do anything about.
Falsehood: - "Consumers are purchasing toxic products, so that is what we make."
Reality: - "Consumers buy what is available and they can afford."
Earlier quoted context omitted.
A plastic bag is literal trash. The problem with these sort of equivocations is that they conveniently side-step the categorical argument. One something like; do not surround yourself with trash. realshadow has rule 7, https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36503179 , "quality over quantity". That is a value argument, not an efficiency argument. Only arguing from efficiency is essentially internalizing the logic of the…
You raise an interesting point, but isn't this just moving to another extreme? It seems like both quality and efficiency have their place, we are probably putting too much emphasis on efficiency at the moment, but completely focusing on quality and disregarding efficiency isn't the solution either. It's maximising a single (ill-defined) metric as well, no? If we stick with the plastic vs cotton bag example, we are co…
Actually, I would agree with that for sure. The real world is grey, and multiple things are true at once. I'm certainly guilty of leaning to the other extreme here.
> some aggregate of environmental impact metrics e and the number of times we use the bag n
I believe I understand, and I appreciate the overall push back.
But starkly put, and to be a little flippant ..
> would you still favor the cotton bag just because it is higher quality?
.. absolutely yes. Certainly in this case. The reuse number is incredibly (incredibly) flexible. In no world n=1 will be a given. The only reason we have reuse of one for a bag, is out of habit, simply put. Habits change all the time. A cotton bag will not have a reuse of one. It is more expensive to begin with. It could hold sentimental value. It may have a lot of other uses. Do we even need a bag? 80% of time, the store clerk gives you a bag out of muscle memory, not because you can't hold a couple of items in your hands or stuff in your pockets. The utility of a plastic bag might even be closer to 0 than 1.
> It's maximising a single (ill-defined) metric as well, no?
I think that is where we might disagree the most. Quality cannot be measured, it can only be known. I hate that this reads as touchy-feely, but I don't know a better way to put it. Once you accept that quality cannot be measured in numbers, it is liberating. Then it allows you to argue in a different paradigm; How your neighborhood "feels" because there's no plastic bags stuck in roadside shrubbery, the peace of mind knowing that your drinking water doesn't have microplastics in it, ... that's genuinely immeasurable. Yet it is the stuff that makes up quality of life. People can be convinced of those qualities, and their value, _without_ quantifying them.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
What does the oxygen double bond bit do? (Automation/controls here and high school organic chemistry was a long time ago, but I've printed kilos and kilos of PLA parts... some parts seem fine after being installed outdoors in full sunlight in a hot environment, they're nonstructural and covered in dust though.)
I'm sorry if this is inaccurate, I'm pulling from orgo 10+ years ago, and I feel like an artist using feelings. If you look into molecular orbital theory, the double bond causes overlap, which makes the bonds unstable. It can more easily jump off and create a new bond. If you want to see an even worse situation, look at Nitrogen triple bonds. Further, the extra oxygen attached to the carbon makes the bond a bit polar…
The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…
Maybe the solution is better labeling. No, we are awash in labels already and I am sick of everything having a legal treatise attached to it. Labels just throw the problem back in the laps of consumers, an approach which clearly does not work.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Preferring walking is a big one, definitely worth more than “donating“. For most, it would require living in a smaller space, in a more urban area and is probably the most people can do to reduce that impact on the environment. The energy spend that comes from living in detached single family home that multiplies all the distances mass has to travel back and forth from that home (and subsequent homes) dwarfs everythi…
Walking is healthy and often is a signal that you live in a walkable place. Living in walkable place (concept similar to lately popular 15-minute cities) is important from environment perspective. But, for example, preferring walking to more energy efficient cycling means you need more calories => eat more => affect environment more. Very often living healthy is at odds with being environment friendly. I do not say y…
I guess a more accurate descriptor is “non car dependent living”.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Teflon Aka Polytetrafluoroethylene cookware represents a health hazard. The stuff contains a great deal of Florine and breaks down at 300C, but that’s not purely binary instead it becomes increasingly unstable as your approach the temperature. Further no manufacturing process is perfect, I wouldn’t therefore assume eating significant quantities would be safe. That said, it’s generally used as a coating rather than a…
I'd have thought that fluorine, like oxygen, is a strong oxidizer (fluorine being even stronger), and so fluorides, like oxides (e.g. rust) would be extremely stable, among the most stable compounds possible. Unless I'm forgetting the other side: Maybe the other half of the compound is not a strong enough reducer? It's a hydrocarbon though, it burns well in oxygen... That said, even oxides do break down when heated.…
The word 'Plastic' needs to die. Instead we should be more specific on the type of plastic. Teflon, PLA, ABS, resins, foams, etc... are all plastics, but they are so unrelated outside their long chains, its terrible to stereotype them all into one category. You aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon, but rather the manufacturing process. You can eat these plastics as far as I know and you'd be fine. Eat someth…
"The word 'Plastic' needs to die." ... "its terrible to stereotype them all into one category." I disagree, because, that's like me telling you "The word 'Cancer' needs to die." etc. That would imply you'd be required to tell me the specific cancer you refer to when you say "you aren't going to get cancer from PLA or Teflon" etc. General terms exist for a reason.
And on the case of plastics, that reason is that they are molded by the same processes.
It's about as relevant as talking about "metal contamination" of food when you are measuring mercury.
I became a minimist to save the planet as much as i could. Its easier than any one could think you know. Here is what i have been doing for a decade and would receommend 1. Reusing plastic bags (i love cotton bags but not ideal). Fold and keep one or two in your pocket before you leave home 2. Support and use light software so you dont need to upgrade your gadgets (12y laptop i use) 3. Prepare and eat home cooked mea…
4. Biking - way more energy efficient - you'll get more MPG (Miles-Per-Gnocci).
(there are two 4. on the grandparent post)
Sugar is probably poisoning us much more, but we probably won't care until we reach over 75% obesity rate.