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Plastics are poisoning us

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Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#151

Post by lotsofpulp »

Sankozi wrote: post #64
realshadow wrote: post #11

I became a minimist to save the planet as much as i could. Its easier than any one could think you know. Here is what i have been doing for a decade and would receommend 1. Reusing plastic bags (i love cotton bags but not ideal). Fold and keep one or two in your pocket before you leave home 2. Support and use light software so you dont need to upgrade your gadgets (12y laptop i use) 3. Prepare and eat home cooked mea…

It does not seem that easy and does not seem that important to be honest. Donating 100 dollars monthly to sensible causes seems more beneficial than all combined and easier for lots of people. 3. 4. 5. 4. are barely positive if positive at all (considering environment, some are definitely healthy)

Preferring walking is a big one, definitely worth more than “donating“.

For most, it would require living in a smaller space, in a more urban area and is probably the most people can do to reduce that impact on the environment.

The energy spend that comes from living in detached single family home that multiplies all the distances mass has to travel back and forth from that home (and subsequent homes) dwarfs everything else.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#152

Post by simiones »

tfourb wrote: post #104
iforgotpassword wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The government could mandate that producers of plastics must offer a convenient and financially attractive way to hand in old plastics. We already have this. It's called trash can. How would letting the producers handle this instead would change anything? The plastic was still produced and will end up in a landfill or the ocean.

Why not pay people per kg to return plastics. We have a scheme in Germany where you get something like 30 cents per glass bottle that you return. Even people who don't care about this small sum leave their beer bottles in a convenient place for others to pick up as a result. Mandating a non-trivial payment per kg of plastics would create the incentives for people to not only throw stuff in the bin if they find it con…

Collect it for what? Glass is somewhat easily recyclable, most plastics are not. Even if it's collected with utmost care, it will be taken to a landfill, or "sent to China for recycling" (spilled in the ocean) or burned in a power plant - none of which is that great. Conversely, if it's thrown in the regular trash, it will probably end up in a landfill, which is probably right now the best solution for it.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#153

Post by XorNot »

maccard wrote: post #60
friend_and_foe wrote: post #39

It's a lot about recycling and very little about how it's poisoning human beings. I have a lot of unpopular opinions about plastic. I personally think it's not that big of a deal. Benzine compounds are naaty, but they're in your drinking water. I don't like them. But most plastic is organic compounds since it comes from oil. There are already microbes metabolizing it in the wild, and it's a rich energy source that mo…

> But most plastic is organic compounds since it comes from oil. It being an organic compound doesn't mean it's safe or something we should ignore. Asbestos is an organic compound with wildly useful properties. > Additionally, I think there's too much of an aversion to burning it. At home, its a terrible idea - it's super duper toxic a d leave a horrific nasty waste to dispose of. In a commercial setting maybe, but I…

Asbestos is not an organic compound, asbestos is a silicate mineral fiber. [1]

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Asbestos

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#154

Post by myshpa »

EGreg wrote: post #123

It’s not just plastics. It’s how capitalism works around the world. I wrote about it two years ago: https://magarshak.com/blog/?p=362 Back when I wrote it, I suspected the industry intentionally worked with government to distract the public, and now in this article it is confirmed: Under public pressure, a company like Coca-Cola or Nestlé pledges to insure that the packaging for its products gets recycled. When the p…

How Big Oil Misled The Public Into Believing Plastic Would Be Recycled https://www.npr.org/2020/09/11/897692090/how-big-oil-misled-...

Even Greenpeace now admits the obvious: recycling doesn’t work https://www.city-journal.org/article/on-second-thought-just-...

Europe’s circular economy is leaking https://www.investigate-europe.eu/en/2023/europes-circular-e...

How Big Oil is manipulating the way you think about climate change https://www.salon.com/2023/05/13/how-big-oil-is-manipulating...

Chemical industry used big tobacco’s tactics to conceal evidence of PFAS risks https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jun/07/pfas-3m-...

Companies Knew the Dangers of PFAS 'Forever Chemicals'—and Kept Them Secret https://time.com/6284266/pfas-forever-chemicals-manufacturer...

WHO's Proposed Limits on PFAS in Drinking Water Far Too Weak: Experts https://www.commondreams.org/news/who-pfas-drinking-water-pr...

Rightwing war on ‘woke capitalism’ partly driven by fossil fuel interests and allies https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2023/jun/22/rightwing-wa...

Outside the Safe Operating Space of a New Planetary Boundary for Per- and Polyfluoroalkyl Substances (PFAS) https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.est.2c02765

Documenting the Hidden History of Chemical and Pesticide Hazards in the United States https://www.poisonpapers.org/

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#155

Post by simiones »

tmikaeld wrote: post #90
kossTKR wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"In the end, it's up to consumers." No it's not. Please don't spread sinister pro industry falsities like this. Nothing has ever changed because of some symbolic drops in the ocean. Regulation and collective action is the only thing that has ever worked, all personal lifestyle choices are romanticizations about personal effects that the industry loves because it has pushed responsibility to consumers, like much of th…

I point out in my post that it's hopeless, that huge forces are pushing for more plastic. What's left? Only consumers affecting the supply and demand - or tech. I'm hoping more of a technological revolution, like this: https://twitter.com/thebetterindia/status/167302084037433344... Algae is abundant, easy to grow and completely compostable - the problem - again, is capitalism holding it hostage.

Voters have a much higher chance of collectively modifying this behavior than consumers do. It's not easy, and the will doesn't seem to be there yet, but it's a hell of a lot easier to influence politicians than corporate conglomerates.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#156

Post by _dain_ »

aziaziazi wrote: post #61
realshadow wrote: post #11

I became a minimist to save the planet as much as i could. Its easier than any one could think you know. Here is what i have been doing for a decade and would receommend 1. Reusing plastic bags (i love cotton bags but not ideal). Fold and keep one or two in your pocket before you leave home 2. Support and use light software so you dont need to upgrade your gadgets (12y laptop i use) 3. Prepare and eat home cooked mea…

4. Walking. A bit less minimalistic: ride your (non e-) bike, scooter, skateboard, kayak, sled, basically anything non motorized. Use best tire quality so you don’t change then often. A bite more minimalistic: prefer walking barefoot anytime you can. Shoes are tire that wear out. King of related: still looking for shoe/soles that last. My grand mother used to wear wood clogs, not sure where to find some that fits me.

Do you wear a hair shirt too?

How are you going to transport heavy goods without some kind of motorized or motor-assist vehicle? Unless you want to keep horses or donkeys.

Ebikes are a godsend. Without one I'd have to get things delivered by van.

This is the problem with environmentalism-as-actually-practiced -- the conversation starts with plastic pollution, you look away for five seconds, and suddenly there are a bunch of ascetics one-upping each other in the "LARP as a third-world peasant" game. There is no social defense mechanism against it. Normal people look at this and think "no thanks". It's all about focus on minimizing downside and (implicitly) self-flagellation for the sin of living in a rich country; there is no focus on things with upside potential, like "how do we increase the supply of clean energy so we can have cheap material abundance".

I don't want to live in squalor. I want to enjoy a hot shower of crystal clear desalinated water, heated by electricity made in the searing heart of a nuclear reactor, and it all costs a fraction of a penny to run.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#157

Post by lotsofpulp »

bitwize wrote: post #135
sacnoradhq wrote: post #10

Much of the 80's recycling movement was funded as greenwashing by the plastics industry. The lie was that plastic was a "closed cycle" and "infinitely reusable." In the late 90's/early 00's, "biodegradable plastic" was another lie. We need to ban all materials that persist with poisonous degradation products. Most bottles should then transition back to glass or to enamel-lined (not BPA) cans. Glass persists for thous…

Anything that doesn't involve massive reduction of the human population and a reversion to preindustrial lifestyles is greenwashing.

With the technology we have, I would have to agree with this statement.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#158

Post by acumenical »

realshadow wrote: post #11

I became a minimist to save the planet as much as i could. Its easier than any one could think you know. Here is what i have been doing for a decade and would receommend 1. Reusing plastic bags (i love cotton bags but not ideal). Fold and keep one or two in your pocket before you leave home 2. Support and use light software so you dont need to upgrade your gadgets (12y laptop i use) 3. Prepare and eat home cooked mea…

I was with you until the whole sleep away the day bit, then you lost me. It sounds more like a cover for depression or learned helplessness than a desire to do good. If that's how you see things then I question the rest of it.

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#159

Post by [deleted] »

tfourb wrote: post #5
tmikaeld wrote: post #2

Yes? At this point, it's hopeless - plastics are expanding like never before, Shell expanding several new enormous factories right in the US. No politician is interested in stopping it either, since the lobbying industry for plastics is also going strong. The only legislation passed in modern time is against single-use plastics, which is just a tiny drop in the ocean (!!) of plastic. And also, the clothes industry is…

Not sure how the "it's to late to do anything about it" is supposed to contribute to this debate. It's also factually wrong. The production of new plastics could be drastically reduced through regulation of both the production itself and its use cases. Most food and drink containers could be made from non-plastic materials. I've built a house that uses maybe 5% of the plastic that is common in construction where I li…

[deleted]

Re: Plastics are poisoning us

#160

Post by _dain_ »

perlgeek wrote: post #21
realshadow wrote: post #11

I became a minimist to save the planet as much as i could. Its easier than any one could think you know. Here is what i have been doing for a decade and would receommend 1. Reusing plastic bags (i love cotton bags but not ideal). Fold and keep one or two in your pocket before you leave home 2. Support and use light software so you dont need to upgrade your gadgets (12y laptop i use) 3. Prepare and eat home cooked mea…

I'm curious, where do you plan trees? Do you have land on your own, or is there some public land where you can plant trees?

The elites don't want you to know this, but you can put seeds anywhere you like
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