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Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

cnn.com

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Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#91

Post by sundvor »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #77
sundvor wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nor servicing them, further down the line.

That’s a feature for the end customer, not a bug. I honestly think it’s the biggest reason Toyota is so anti-EV. It’s a lot easier to make a reliable EV than an ICE car.

Yep, very much so. I intended it as such! (Expanded version: "Nor will there be much demand for people servicing the electric motors in after sales").

My first service after getting an EV was for tyre rotation, an air cabin filter and retrofitting a Pedestrian Warning System that wasn't available in Australia when I bought the car - 15 months into the ownership! Sure the cars are more expensive up front, but you're saving a bucket down the line. (I intend to have mine for 15 years or so.)

Toyota is actively blocking moves to improve fuel quality standards in Australia, as an honourable mention (for the hall of shame). I'm absolutely disgusted by their behaviour.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#92

Post by burnished »

statusqueue wrote: post #52
burnished wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, their primary income seems to come from deceiving people, I'm sure they'll either invent new forms of 'maintenance' work or grossly exaggerate the required frequency of some other task.

The majority of their revenue actually comes from the service department.

Correct.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#93

Post by anjel »

grugagag wrote: post #26
criddell wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the switch to electric is going to impact Ford dealers? From what I've read they need to (re)train their mechanics and buy a bunch of new equipment and then also deal with the fact that electric vehicles require less maintenance.

Maybe the whole dealership ‘model’ is to change too?

GM has no love lost on its dealer networks, just constant litigation costs. Dealerships are middle men, and like all middlemen, you make money holding your ground by force.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#94

Post by seanmcdirmid »

NikolaNovak wrote: post #22
m463 wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep on reading that electric vehicles require less maintenance, but they still require some maintenance, and lots of things continue to break. how much maintenance does a honda ice car really require? Most of them run flawlessly for years and years, almost without opening the hood at all. I wonder how the numbers break down?

It's weird. Two decades ago I had a 2004 subaru that needed nothing first years. Then We got a 2015 Toyota rav 4 and every maintenance there was some up sell. Change a filter check the brakes resurface rotors change the atf or differential oil etc. We actually got into a dispute with dealer after third consecutive $300brakes maintenance. Thought maybe that was lemon car or bad dealer but now we have a honda odyssey a…

EVs have brakes, but due to regenerative braking, they wear out much more slowly than they do on an ICE. However, EVs see, to go through tires much faster than an ICE…way too many people enjoying their acceleration boost on a heavier car.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#95

Post by seanmcdirmid »

mulmen wrote: post #41
danans wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>U wonder about Ev - do they not have brakes, Cv joints, bearings, differentials (I know there's no transmission), et cetera? They have all those, but at least for brakes, they last much longer due to regen braking.

My brakes are serviced on a time interval. Brake fluid is hydrophilic. You replace it based on age to prevent corrosion of brake components. If brakes are used less and don't get as hot I would expect EV brakes to need more preventative maintenance, not less. Pads and rotors may last longer, but fluid will be the same or worse.

I think on a Tesla you should use your brakes once a month or so, just so they don’t get rusty.

If you live in a place where they salt the roads in the winter, you need to clean and lube your breaks once a year.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#96

Post by seanmcdirmid »

asynchronous wrote: post #80
stbenjam wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve owned a few EV’s and they all have 12V batteries. The traction battery charges the 12V and it powers all the typical car power systems.

While Teslas are required to have a 12v due to federal regulation they do not to my knowledge require any checking or maintenance. They’re basically unused in the car, you can’t even get to them without removing stuff.

Tesla uses a lithium 12V now due to problems with the leas acid one they used previously. So they are definitely used, most of the electronics outside of the power train are 12V.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#97

Post by soperj »

starttoaster wrote: post #21
soperj wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seriously don't change the oil?

I could be mistaken, but I think they're mostly not counting a procedure that basically amounts to loosening up a bolt that makes oil come out the bottom, tightening it back up again, and then adding new oil from the top side. I think the kind of maintenance they're thinking of is more like "replace the serpentine belt."

They said they don't lift the hood.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#98

Post by soperj »

stbenjam wrote: post #38
soperj wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You seriously don't change the oil?

There’s no oil to change. It doesn’t have a combustion engine.

Are you even reading what I'm replying to? > how much maintenance does a honda ice car really require? Most of them run flawlessly for years and years, almost without opening the hood at all.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#99

Post by mulmen »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #95
mulmen wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brakes are serviced on a time interval. Brake fluid is hydrophilic. You replace it based on age to prevent corrosion of brake components. If brakes are used less and don't get as hot I would expect EV brakes to need more preventative maintenance, not less. Pads and rotors may last longer, but fluid will be the same or worse.

I think on a Tesla you should use your brakes once a month or so, just so they don’t get rusty. If you live in a place where they salt the roads in the winter, you need to clean and lube your breaks once a year.

Using the brakes is what removes rust from them. The friction of the brake pads rubs off the surface oxidation. I would expect Teslas to have very rusty brake rotors unless they have something like BMW's brake drying to cycle the brakes regularly to remove rust.

I have no idea what it means to "lube" brakes, I guess you mean where the calipers mount? I have never heard of that being a maintenance item. But please do not apply any lubricant to your braking system unless you know exactly what you are doing and why.

I am speaking about water vapor getting inside the braking system, which is unavoidable. Eventually moisture will get in there and it will settle at the bottom of the system where it will begin to rust components from the inside.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#100

Post by cubefox »

stcredzero wrote: post #58
cubefox wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is: Combustion motors are amazingly complex and highly optimized beasts, while electric motors are dead simple. There isn't much to improve. So there are not many people working on electric motors.

electric motors are dead simple. There isn't much to improve. But the entire system of the vehicle, and the way we use vehicles, and the way those form factors affect society and people's lives are very, very complex. So basically, the shift in technology is going to enable changes and improvements in all of those ways. Also, look at what Tesla, Lucid, and even Volkswagen have been able to achieve in terms of innovat…

> But the entire system of the vehicle, and the way we use vehicles, and the way those form factors affect society and people's lives are very, very complex.

But that's no different from combustion cars. What matters is that the motor (by far the most complex part of a combustion car) is now a simple part in an electric car. The rest stays about the same in terms of complexity. So the overall complexity has gone down!

Say a combustion car had 100 complexity units, of which the motor has 50, the rest has also 50.

For a electric vehicle the complexity of the motor is say, 5 units. The rest is the same. So the overall complexity is 55.

You may ask why electric cars are so much more expensive when they are less complex. The obvious answer is that the batteries are expensive.

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