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Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

cnn.com

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Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#51

Post by sokoloff »

stcroixx wrote: post #34
criddell wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the switch to electric is going to impact Ford dealers? From what I've read they need to (re)train their mechanics and buy a bunch of new equipment and then also deal with the fact that electric vehicles require less maintenance.

In my circles, dealers would always be the absolute last resort option for having any maintenance done due to their reputation of inflating prices and doing crappy work. Not sure if EV manufacturers are attempting to force consumers to have all their work done by dealers. If so, I’ll keep waiting.

I’ve had a Nissan LEAF for 8.5 years. Everything the Nissan dealer has done has been free (service bulletins and a warranty repair [maybe a second for airbag, I forget).

Everything else has been an easy DIY, meaning a corner/independent mechanic could have done it just as easily.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#52

Post by statusqueue »

burnished wrote: post #9
criddell wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how the switch to electric is going to impact Ford dealers? From what I've read they need to (re)train their mechanics and buy a bunch of new equipment and then also deal with the fact that electric vehicles require less maintenance.

Well, their primary income seems to come from deceiving people, I'm sure they'll either invent new forms of 'maintenance' work or grossly exaggerate the required frequency of some other task.

The majority of their revenue actually comes from the service department.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#53

Post by sokoloff »

mulmen wrote: post #41
danans wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>U wonder about Ev - do they not have brakes, Cv joints, bearings, differentials (I know there's no transmission), et cetera? They have all those, but at least for brakes, they last much longer due to regen braking.

My brakes are serviced on a time interval. Brake fluid is hydrophilic. You replace it based on age to prevent corrosion of brake components. If brakes are used less and don't get as hot I would expect EV brakes to need more preventative maintenance, not less. Pads and rotors may last longer, but fluid will be the same or worse.

Any water vapor that gets into the fluid won’t be removed by brake application, so your flush interval will be no different.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#54

Post by vel0city »

ruffrey wrote: post #30
Mizoguchi wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dealers will slowly fade away as online car shopping becomes more common. Volvo for example is aiming at 2030 as the year they turn 100% online. It's reasonable to assume all other car makers will do the same. There's absolutely no reason to buy from a dealer in today's world, that's like when in the 80s and early 90s you needed a middleman to buy a computer.

How do you test drive a car for an online dealer? Do they drive to your home and let you take it for a spin?

If they follow the Tesla/Rivian/Lucid model they'd have "galleries" which might have a few cars on hand to show off, see paint and fabric samples, hopefully have someone knowledgeable on hand to answer questions, and test drive but you then go place an order for a new one.

There are a few Tesla galleries near me despite not being legal to be sold in my state.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#55

Post by jrockway »

jemmyw wrote: post #40
toomuchtodo wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ford Credit is what sells Ford vehicles, but it’s also where the profit is (roughly half of profits). Take away the credit biz, and that’s a material impact to both profits and volume. As the below article notes, it’s a balance and pushing risk around. https://www.detroitnews.com/story/business/autos/ford/2020/0...

Does that mean if you buy a vehicle outright all those folks buying on credit are subsidising you?

I think that creating money always raises prices, so you're probably merely being screwed less, rather than being subsidized.

(I count loans as "creating money" because buyers look at how much X to buy based on how costly it is to borrow money. People are seeing this in the housing market now; when loans were 2.5%, sellers raised their price to fit the monthly payment budget. Now at 7%, it's harder to sell at those prices. If everyone had to pay cash for everything, everything would probably be cheaper, because money would be intrinsically more valuable.)

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#56

Post by sundvor »

cubefox wrote: post #50
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #2

They're laying off workers whose skillsets are specific to making vehicles with combustion engines and hiring workers specific to making vehicles with electric motors.

The thing is: Combustion motors are amazingly complex and highly optimized beasts, while electric motors are dead simple. There isn't much to improve. So there are not many people working on electric motors.

Nor servicing them, further down the line.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#57

Post by sokoloff »

mulmen wrote: post #47
stbenjam wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s no oil to change. It doesn’t have a combustion engine.

It has a differential and gearbox so it has oil.

On the LEAF, it’s an inspect-only item. There is no replacement interval specified.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#58

Post by stcredzero »

cubefox wrote: post #50
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #2

They're laying off workers whose skillsets are specific to making vehicles with combustion engines and hiring workers specific to making vehicles with electric motors.

The thing is: Combustion motors are amazingly complex and highly optimized beasts, while electric motors are dead simple. There isn't much to improve. So there are not many people working on electric motors.

electric motors are dead simple. There isn't much to improve.

But the entire system of the vehicle, and the way we use vehicles, and the way those form factors affect society and people's lives are very, very complex. So basically, the shift in technology is going to enable changes and improvements in all of those ways.

Also, look at what Tesla, Lucid, and even Volkswagen have been able to achieve in terms of innovations just to date. Tesla has found ways to let electric motors spin faster, drive vehicles more efficiently, get built cheaper, and without rare earths. Lucid has Tesla beat in terms of comparable capacity in smaller packaging. Even Volkswagen has impressed Munroe and associates with some of their design around motors.

I'd bet you can find people mistakenly saying, "there isn't much to improve," in internal combustion engines over their long history. Even now, this isn't correct. I suspect 21st century innovation in vehicles is just beginning!

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#59

Post by cityofdelusion »

criddell wrote: post #4
BugsJustFindMe wrote: post #2

They're laying off workers whose skillsets are specific to making vehicles with combustion engines and hiring workers specific to making vehicles with electric motors.

I wonder how the switch to electric is going to impact Ford dealers? From what I've read they need to (re)train their mechanics and buy a bunch of new equipment and then also deal with the fact that electric vehicles require less maintenance.

I'm not sure much changes. High voltage systems are fairly complex and basically impossible to work on at home in a safe manner. This will direct pretty much all repairs that require disabling the high voltage system to mechanics / dealerships. We have a living example of this sort of transition with GM and their Volt / Bolt. Mechanics working on EVs today have be specially trained on high voltage procedures, which are fairly cumbersome in the shop to perform. Even things that seem simple, like the heat pump, end up with a fair amount of complexity due to stuff like special procedures, special oils, more valves with addition of a battery loop, etc.

Dealerships do lose the oil change up-sell loop, but my gut feeling is they can make up the cost with big margins on high-voltage repairs. Check out the workshop service manuals for some existing EVs today -- its staggering how much more complex a battery cell replacement is compared to say, an ICE engine swap. Dealer prices on these two procedures are priced accordingly, with procedures that involve HV components regularly costing more than the depreciated value of the EV itself! The Toyota Prius seems to be the first and last model with any kind of easy repair kept in mind for high-voltage components on cars.

Re: Ford to lay off workers as it focuses on electric vehicles

#60

Post by tired_star_nrg »

statusqueue wrote: post #52
burnished wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, their primary income seems to come from deceiving people, I'm sure they'll either invent new forms of 'maintenance' work or grossly exaggerate the required frequency of some other task.

The majority of their revenue actually comes from the service department.

Isn’t that what the comment you replied to is saying?
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