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Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

thecodist.com

251–260 of 263 posts

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#251
post #191

Here's my problem with people who put in 80 hours a week: they don't write good code. At my first job - way back in the last millenium - we were creating a carrier class network device. I was hired to run the mail servers but ended up building an embedded linux that ran the PowerPC on our hardware - we also had a Strong ARM that ran a gig ethernet but that was under another guy. So, how did I go from mail server to a…

Honestly that anecdote just proves that you were a better engineer than the 60 hour boot loader guy. It doesn't say anything about hours other than that some people will work hard even if they aren't making progress. You aren't claiming that he'd have done better by spending only 2/3 the time, just that a solution (that he couldn't find) existed that fit. Honestly I find myself amused at the extent of the argument he…

I think the point is more that having some sort of time constraint perhaps helps force you to come up with more realistic solutions.

For example the number of startups with VC investment who seem to have spent 50%+ of their time creating a new NoSQL DB or something.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an individual, you don't get the diversification effect of #1, so you end up paying a premium rate. Hmm. USAA quoted me $350.81 per month (same plan provider!) for two adults, two children, one adult 'healthy as a horse', one adult with preexisting conditions. Just one pass, without shopping around. That sounds pretty steep - it is - but it's only twice what you could expect to pay for car insurance. I'll bet if I…

USAA is an exceptionally good company.

Anything analogous, at least qualitatively, to USAA for folks with no military connections, in California?

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

USAA is an exceptionally good company.

I love USAA to pieces. For years my time in the Marines was good only for memories (good and bad), cynicism, and a career in IT. Which isn't bad. But then they let me in the club and my insurance cost dropped like a rock. Plus they're super easy to deal with. Had some hail damage and where my neighbors were fighting _their_ insurance provider months later USAA couldn't get me the money fast enough. "Overnight .. is t…

Anything analogous, at least qualitatively, to USAA for folks with no military connections, in California?

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#254
post #219

The culture of overwork in America in general (not just in IT) seems simply pathological, and I just don't understand it. The crazy overtime that people in the medical profession are expected to put in is probably one of the most egregious examples, because lives could literally be lost as a consequence of errors made due to lack of sleep and overwork. Lawyers are typically worked to death at law firms. Wall St is fa…

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Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Long hours are the key to profitability, as Philip Greenspun put it: "From a business point of view, long hours by programmers are a key to profitability. A programmer probably needs to spend 25 hours per week...Thus a programmer who works 55 hours per week is twice as productive as one who works 40 hours per week.... A product is going to get out the door much faster if it is built by 4 people working 70-hour weeks…

> "If you see one of your best people walking out the door at 6:00 pm, try to think why you haven't challenged that person with an interesting project. If you see one of your average programmers walking out the door at 6:00 pm, recognize that this person is not developing into a good programmer." Wow! What a horribly shitty attitude. If your "average programmer" isn't spending their every waking moment at work they'r…

He got one. Read the story of Ars Digita sometime...

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#256
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two problems with your wall of text. Firstly your comparison to lawyering is disingenuous, lawyering has the partnership model, you take a load of young naive idiots, you dangle this partnership jackpot in front of their noses and then you work them to the bone doing dull and even pointless work that you bill your clients many $$$s an hour for while the partners take the bulk of that money home. Lots drop o…

Become a manager or CEO, and you will sing a different tune quite quickly. At that point you will realize that people want to get tons of money for flagrantly doing nothing, and some of them actually resent their peers who bust their humps so that the company can survive. At every company there are a few who do real work, and many who simply serve time. Government is driving the US economy into a ditch and has also b…

I've been a manager.

One day you'll realise that you're the failure, not the staff. Either you let the wrong people in your team, you fucked up their motivation or you're a bad manager.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's at-will employment, if you don't like it, you can leave at any point. Basically if you don't like being exploited, quit and get it over with. As people pointed out though, it's a different story once health care is part of the equation.

It's at-will employment, if you don't like it, you can leave at any point. Basically if you don't like being exploited, quit and get it over with. No, it's not at-will employment. At will employment would be, "I want to work at Google", and snap you're working at Google. Real life employment is more like: how is the general economy? how is your specific field's economy? If you quit this job, can you last for a while…

Nevertheless, "at will" is the common term for what he describes.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#258
post #215
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> some firms offer a bonus. i guess that counts as free money way in the way that overtime counts as free time. I've always disliked this way of thinking. A bonus is a reward for the good work (already) done, NOT incentive/payment to add additional work.

Why not both? I'm not advocating overtime, but if overtime is needed in a certain period then what's wrong with the company gives out bonus?

What if the company was going to give you a bonus anyway (it's part of your employment contact), then asks you to work overtime. Will they pay a bigger bonus?

If not, then you are working unpaid overtime.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#259
post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plus, COBRA payments are (generally) not tax-deductible, so add another 30-40% more.

A self-employed person can deduct health expenses against gross income. You are correct in that COBRA cannot be deducted in this way. But it can still be taken as an itemized deduction. I'm not a tax accountant, but my tax accountant is. Another gotcha: if you're taking the 60% markdown on COBRA from Obama, then no, you're not allowed to write it off at all, but I wouldn't be complaining about that.

Only the portion which is greater than 7.5% of your gross income can be deducted on Schedule A.

Re: Why I Don't Do Unpaid Overtime and Neither Should You

#260
post #241

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Become a manager or CEO, and you will sing a different tune quite quickly. At that point you will realize that people want to get tons of money for flagrantly doing nothing, and some of them actually resent their peers who bust their humps so that the company can survive. At every company there are a few who do real work, and many who simply serve time. Government is driving the US economy into a ditch and has also b…

I've been a manager. One day you'll realise that you're the failure, not the staff. Either you let the wrong people in your team, you fucked up their motivation or you're a bad manager.

There are bad managers, but there are also many bad employees. Peter Principle notwithstanding, within organizations that must post a profit to survive, those who found companies or rise to leadership roles are generally smarter, harder working, and more disciplined. Your original post does not contend with this.
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