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Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

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Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#61

Post by vel0city »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #46
avalys wrote: post #22

I think this is great but I continue to wonder about Tesla's plan here. The Supercharger network is one of their remaining competitive advantages. Other manufacturers were behind for years on efficiency, range, etc. but are now catching up - and other manufacturers are far better at making an actual _car_ than Tesla. Build quality, quality control, durability, comfort, noise, etc. Unless Tesla is so confident that th…

> Supercharger network is one of their remaining competitive advantages NACS for Ford doesn't mean a Supercharger experience. Tesla's tight integration will continue to yield fruit for at least a few more years.

NACS for Ford does mean a Supercharger experience.

https://media.ford.com/content/fordmedia/fna/us/en/news/2023...

Allegedly once a physical adapter comes out all existing CCS Fords will be able to access the Supercharger network with Plug and Charge.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#62

Post by 650REDHAIR »

constantly wrote: post #36
avalys wrote: post #22

I think this is great but I continue to wonder about Tesla's plan here. The Supercharger network is one of their remaining competitive advantages. Other manufacturers were behind for years on efficiency, range, etc. but are now catching up - and other manufacturers are far better at making an actual _car_ than Tesla. Build quality, quality control, durability, comfort, noise, etc. Unless Tesla is so confident that th…

Speaking for myself, but although I loathe Elon and deride Tesla’s build quality, there’s truly nothing like driving around a Plaid Model S for it’s absolutely tearjerking speed. The weird steering wheel continues to annoy, however. Stepping back though, one can get a performance Model 3 very inexpensively, relatively, and as far as I can tell or have seen, no other manufacturer outside of Porsche (with BMW making so…

I couldn’t disagree more.

Anything that does 0-60 in under 10s is fast enough for me. I’d rather have a quieter and more comfortable ride. I have an actual race car to race on an actual track and don’t need to endanger myself or others going Plaid speeds on public roadways.

I have a 5 year old Avalon Hybrid that was in the bodyshop and rented a Tesla for a month and it was awful. Brand new and it felt like I was driving a Wish.com golf cart. The only redeeming feature was the supercharger in my building.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#63

Post by danans »

avalys wrote: post #22

I think this is great but I continue to wonder about Tesla's plan here. The Supercharger network is one of their remaining competitive advantages. Other manufacturers were behind for years on efficiency, range, etc. but are now catching up - and other manufacturers are far better at making an actual _car_ than Tesla. Build quality, quality control, durability, comfort, noise, etc. Unless Tesla is so confident that th…

> I don't see how this works to their advantage

It probably doesn't, apart from some kind of bragging rights about how their charge connector standard won in North America (which however facile, is important to the most zealous among their customer base).

Tesla was forced to open their charging network to become eligible for federal tax credits. If Tesla starts preferencing or discounting charging for their cars in their network going forward, they will lose those credits and perhaps get in other trouble.

Given that, they are making the best of the situation by partnering with their competitors, who themselves failed to have Tesla's foresight about the importance of a comprehensive charging network - even after Tesla clearly demonstrated the value in that. Remember, VW was forced to create Electrify America as part of the Dieselgate settlement.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#64

Post by xeromal »

throwaway5959 wrote: post #38
tyingq wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"pretty shocking that all the charge networks are getting rug pulled because they couldn't figure out how to accept payment reliably." Is there a reference for this somewhere? I didn't know this was a problem.

It’s not. I drive a CCS car. The reason EA and EVGo are getting demolished is due to the comically limited number of chargers they install per station (four commonly vs dozens at Tesla stations) and the unreliability of the chargers themselves. I’ve never had a problem with payment.

Nothing more frustrating than going to a full charger with a line and driving over to another place that's open just for it to charge your card but fail to initialize.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#65

Post by vel0city »

amluto wrote: post #49
hedora wrote: post #17

It's pretty shocking that all the charge networks are getting rug pulled because they couldn't figure out how to accept payment reliably. I wonder if Tesla has figured that out for third-party automobiles yet. (I mean, I assume they have, but I assumed the other charge networks would be able to obtain working credit card readers, and that definitely didn't happen.)

IMO the non-Tesla networks thoroughly misunderstood the market. People are willing to drive, specifically, to a Tesla charging station because they have the biggest network (and they’re fairly reliable, but anyone could achieve that). Other than that, there is no particular network effect, and drivers don’t want a network effect . Drivers want a charger at a convenient location that works, but there is no more inhere…

Luckily all the CCS chargers I've charged at which were installed within the last year or so had regular credit card terminals which I could pay with phone tap to pay or EMV chipped cards.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#66

Post by 650REDHAIR »

amluto wrote: post #49
hedora wrote: post #17

It's pretty shocking that all the charge networks are getting rug pulled because they couldn't figure out how to accept payment reliably. I wonder if Tesla has figured that out for third-party automobiles yet. (I mean, I assume they have, but I assumed the other charge networks would be able to obtain working credit card readers, and that definitely didn't happen.)

IMO the non-Tesla networks thoroughly misunderstood the market. People are willing to drive, specifically, to a Tesla charging station because they have the biggest network (and they’re fairly reliable, but anyone could achieve that). Other than that, there is no particular network effect, and drivers don’t want a network effect . Drivers want a charger at a convenient location that works, but there is no more inhere…

Also uptime/availability.

What is nice about the Tesla charging map is that I can see how many slots are available so I don’t drive somewhere only to find out the charger is in use or broken.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#67

Post by xeromal »

mertd wrote: post #14
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> CCS is done Who are the remaining CCS adherents?

All of Europe.

I think in the post, context for CCS is CCS 1 which is the Americab variant. CCS 2 is not interoperable and not really useful for discussion here. Maybe Korea too? I can't remember.

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#68

Post by SomeCallMeTim »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #30
dghughes wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My Canadian town of 70,000 has about 100 public CCS charging stations but one for Telsa. So no not great. It's already there so why are they switching? A GM executive was on the news saying how Canadians complained in a survey there were not enough charging stations. I say BS. This sudden study appears and contradicts the 10:1 ratio of CCS to Tesla charger in my town?

> My Canadian town of 70,000...It's already there so why are they switching? It's estimated America will need around 2mm EV chargers by 2030; it currently has about 160k [1]. Every charger currently deployed is less than a tenth of what we need in seven years. That's not quite tabula rasa , but it's close. CCS lost because it prioritized backward compatibility in an environment where most of what's needed must be bui…

Most of those 2M EV chargers only need to be Level 2.

It makes MUCH more sense to use J1772 by default in those 2M chargers, since every EV other than Tesla currently uses that standard, and Tesla can easily use an adapter.

So CCS hasn't "lost". In fact, it's likely to remain a standard. In fact, there are some 5,200 CCS charging station locations in the US, compared to only about 1,800 Supercharger stations. [1]

A stronger position in the market only amplifies itself. Beta was better in every way than VHS, but VHS had a lead in popularity, and network effects eventually resulted in the death of Beta.

[1] https://insideevs.com/news/673190/nacs-ccs1-locations-chargi...

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#69

Post by whycombagator »

starik36 wrote: post #35
avalys wrote: post #22

I think this is great but I continue to wonder about Tesla's plan here. The Supercharger network is one of their remaining competitive advantages. Other manufacturers were behind for years on efficiency, range, etc. but are now catching up - and other manufacturers are far better at making an actual _car_ than Tesla. Build quality, quality control, durability, comfort, noise, etc. Unless Tesla is so confident that th…

> other manufacturers are far better at making an actual car Are they really "far better"? My wife's Tesla hasn't had any issues in the last 3 years. The build quality is great. Every time I have a chance to take the Tesla over my Kia, I do it because it's so much more pleasant to drive it. Over the years I've had many cars. I am struggling to think of one better than the current Tesla that we have.

What other brands have you owned? Kia is not a luxury brand. Tesla competes in the luxury segment

Re: Volvo Cars Adopts Tesla's NACS Port in the United States, Canada and Mexico

#70

Post by brewdad »

kcb wrote: post #60
sxg wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The plan seems very clear to me. They developed a better charger that helped kickstart the market and gave them a competitive advantage. In the future, differentiating on a charger becomes a disadvantage as the EV market gets larger and Tesla owns a smaller percentage, meaning most charging stations will not be compatible with Teslas. The inflection point between the charger being a competitive advantage/disadvantage…

All Teslas sold today are compatible with CCS chargers.

Unless you found yourself in a spot with no other options, I can't imagine any Telsa owner would choose to use a CCS charger that is a worse experience for them in every way.
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