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Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

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211–220 of 268 posts

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

...yet, when saying "ETH" everyone knows what is being referred to. Except for crypto bros.

ETH Lausanne or Zürich?

I know about two newspapers who regularly say "ETH Lausanne", and I suspect these articles are written by similar pedants as some commenters here appear to be.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#212
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is 100% rubbish. Just complete trash. Each submarine cable is 12+ strands which are DWDM multiplexed to 20-40 channels at 100-400gbps. The entire _planned_ starlink constellation has less aggregate switching capacity than a pair of current generation core routers. The market for terrestrial ethernet _routed_ 400Gbps ports is 10k+ annually and 800Gbps is just getting warmed up. Satellite is not going to ev…

> Each submarine cable is 12+ strands which are DWDM multiplexed to 20-40 channels at 100-400gbps. Being able to pump 40 terabits per second up to a satellite from a single uplink, as they hope, is significant-- exceeding most subocean cables.

Which will go oh so well when an adversary appears with a laser uplink of their own and starts fiddlefarting the Rx Sat to ruin your day.

Lines have one biiiiig advantage. They're very easy to monitor(liveness), very hard to imperceptibly tap anymore, they don't move once you put them down (generally), and if they do, you know just where to start looking.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#213

> Although the laser system was not directly tested with an orbiting satellite, they accomplished high-data transmission over a free-space distance of 53km (33 miles). This is peanuts compared to under sea cables and issues you will find penetrating atmosphere and increasingly, space. We should keep under sea cables and work on additional connections to make our networks more resilient, both to natural phenomena, equ…

It's not peanuts at all, given that it's an entirely different technology. Free space optics will have different applications, of course, but those applications where fiber is currently not feasible stand to profit quite a bit from this.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#214

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this parody?

Not any more than saying a "proper cloud" will disrupt satellite transmissions is meant to be serious. Is it a cirrus cloud? Is it a cumulus? A cumulonimbus? Which cloud is going to do this blocking?

A proper cloud. Everybody understood what he meant, including you. Why the need for such extreme pedantry? Oh right. It's HN, home of uber-pedants.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who thinks HFT should be forbidden? Stocks and investments are a nice thing to have, since you can buy a share of a company you believe in, they get the money, do stuff, you get dividends and in the end can sell the stock after some time too. HFT changes these "beliefs in company" to "beliefs that the stock will go up", and the timeframe of those "beliefs" is sometimes in milliseconds. This turns cl…

No. It's garbage, trading is supposed to serve human needs and should take place on human timescales. If I had a magic wand I'd randomly fuzz the timing of trades to remove a lot of incentives for HFT and some other kinds of automated trading, which are not much more than banging on a known deficiency in a slot machine. Proponents argue that HFT and other such innovations provide liquidity to markets; my skeptical ta…

If you want to buy an apple stock now at say 185$ (at time of writing). What gives you the confidence that you can buy it at this price?

1. You could put a limit order at 185$ or lower. But maybe no one is putting a sell order at this price? So you are stuck waiting for some time, maybe never if the price keeps going up? 2. You could put it at 190$ to trigger a trade but you risk buying 5$ more than what you originally wanted if people already cleaned up the book from 185$ to 190$.

The only reason you can definitively say that an apple stock is worth exactly 185$ right now is liquidity/depth of the market. Because there are enough players in the game that is willing to make miniscule amount of profit in very short amount of time.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#216
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Each submarine cable is 12+ strands which are DWDM multiplexed to 20-40 channels at 100-400gbps. Being able to pump 40 terabits per second up to a satellite from a single uplink, as they hope, is significant-- exceeding most subocean cables.

Which will go oh so well when an adversary appears with a laser uplink of their own and starts fiddlefarting the Rx Sat to ruin your day. Lines have one biiiiig advantage. They're very easy to monitor(liveness), very hard to imperceptibly tap anymore, they don't move once you put them down (generally), and if they do, you know just where to start looking.

Most infrastructure is vulnerable in one way or another... just a few miles from me someone cut an important SONET ring in two places.

The telescopes involved in this are strongly directional, so whomever is tampering would need to be rather close to the real uplink.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#217
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. HFT goes against the original ethos of a market open to all. Instead of trading on the merit of a given company, it simply reinforces the market is increasingly gamified and unfair. It's like futures, no ones cares about the commodity being traded, or that doing so can really hurt people and business that rely on that item, it's just another item to be gambled.

> Instead of trading on the merit of a given company, it simply reinforces the market What you're proposing is actually not a ban on HFT, it's a ban on investment strategies other than value investing. How would you implement that in practice? Have every investor swear under oath that they do believe in the company's inherent value, regardless of the rest of the market's behavior? > HFT goes against the original etho…

The how is not the issue, the why is.

And for the how, just limit the number of transactions one can do per second or the money one can exchange per second. Then everyone will have to be smart instead of being the one with the best connection. Or split the markets in "Joe invests" market and "Bigcorp" invests.

Whatever scheme is defined as "stock exchange" can surely be fixed by another scheme. Humans have been inventing games and agreed to rules for centuries, it's not like it's something we can't do.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#218

I like the ETH result and it is an impressive feat (I know some people involved in that work). That said the article is a lot of rubbish. First there is the weird focus on lasers, all (relevant) Optical Communication uses lasers, including fibre comms. Then they make it sound like this is to replace fibre, again rubbish. The amount of data going through fibres is absolutely staggering, replacing this with intersatell…

Reddit seems to think that Starlink is already serving users via sat-to-sat optical links https://www.reddit.com/r/Starlink/comments/xsupcn/laser_link...

Can't imagine how hard it is to align those in space (and keep them aligned) in a low altitude satellite, but it sounds pretty cool. I'm guessing the range is something like 1000km/2000km?

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#219
post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree. HFT goes against the original ethos of a market open to all. Instead of trading on the merit of a given company, it simply reinforces the market is increasingly gamified and unfair. It's like futures, no ones cares about the commodity being traded, or that doing so can really hurt people and business that rely on that item, it's just another item to be gambled.

> Instead of trading on the merit of a given company, it simply reinforces the market What you're proposing is actually not a ban on HFT, it's a ban on investment strategies other than value investing. How would you implement that in practice? Have every investor swear under oath that they do believe in the company's inherent value, regardless of the rest of the market's behavior? > HFT goes against the original etho…

Excluding the investors that have literally paid for an advantage sounds fair to me (buying real estate closer to thr exchange because every ns counts).

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#220
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article is 100% rubbish. Just complete trash. Each submarine cable is 12+ strands which are DWDM multiplexed to 20-40 channels at 100-400gbps. The entire _planned_ starlink constellation has less aggregate switching capacity than a pair of current generation core routers. The market for terrestrial ethernet _routed_ 400Gbps ports is 10k+ annually and 800Gbps is just getting warmed up. Satellite is not going to ev…

That Starlink estimate must be low, they currently have 1.5 million customers and a significant percentage of total bandwidth is over ocean and thus mostly wasted. If you assume a pessimistic 100x over subscription and 50% waste over oceans and non serviced countries * 50mbps (upload + download) * 1.5 million customers that’s well over 1.5 TBPs current capacity for customers which then doubles when you include their…

Does it count as a waste if their main selling point is to deliver internet access to places that are hard or impossible to reach otherwise?
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