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Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

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Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#101

Post by marcell »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #76
ortusdux wrote: post #13

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

Am I the only one who thinks HFT should be forbidden? Stocks and investments are a nice thing to have, since you can buy a share of a company you believe in, they get the money, do stuff, you get dividends and in the end can sell the stock after some time too. HFT changes these "beliefs in company" to "beliefs that the stock will go up", and the timeframe of those "beliefs" is sometimes in milliseconds. This turns cl…

What's the actual harm of HFT for the average person? I can set a $ limit on my orders, so I don't pay more than I want. Why should I care if some HFT guy scrapes 0.01% value off each trade?

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#102

Post by Xcelerate »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #76
ortusdux wrote: post #13

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

Am I the only one who thinks HFT should be forbidden? Stocks and investments are a nice thing to have, since you can buy a share of a company you believe in, they get the money, do stuff, you get dividends and in the end can sell the stock after some time too. HFT changes these "beliefs in company" to "beliefs that the stock will go up", and the timeframe of those "beliefs" is sometimes in milliseconds. This turns cl…

I have a suspicion that at some point, an HFT group will obtain a brief but substantial lead in machine learning (a la RenTech, but on a shorter timeframe) that allows them to suck a decent amount of money out of the stock market before anyone else can respond or close the gap. We probably won’t get any sort of regulation until after that happens.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#103

Post by cortesoft »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #76
ortusdux wrote: post #13

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

Am I the only one who thinks HFT should be forbidden? Stocks and investments are a nice thing to have, since you can buy a share of a company you believe in, they get the money, do stuff, you get dividends and in the end can sell the stock after some time too. HFT changes these "beliefs in company" to "beliefs that the stock will go up", and the timeframe of those "beliefs" is sometimes in milliseconds. This turns cl…

In a healthy market, HFTs serve as market makers, and allow normal traders to have faith that prices will be consistent at all exchanges. If there is enough competition, an HFT will have very low profit.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#104

Post by elif »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #76
ortusdux wrote: post #13

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

Am I the only one who thinks HFT should be forbidden? Stocks and investments are a nice thing to have, since you can buy a share of a company you believe in, they get the money, do stuff, you get dividends and in the end can sell the stock after some time too. HFT changes these "beliefs in company" to "beliefs that the stock will go up", and the timeframe of those "beliefs" is sometimes in milliseconds. This turns cl…

HFT isn't even that harmful. What's harmful is brokerages that hold large portions of financial instruments who take advantage of customers' live buying and selling with delayed swaps, intentional front running, etc. This is how the stock market was bullied before HFT, options markets, trading bots, etc enabled 'everyone' to do skeezy arbitrage and not just market makers.

The only meaningful way to limit the efficacy of these modern trading styles would be purposeful market friction through minimum holding times, circuit breakers, etc. You can't just legislate that people mustnt have low ping.. it's impossible to enforce. And those market friction mechanisms can create scary market conditions like backlogs, etc and guess what, enable market making brokerages to do internal swaps etc. in spite of the friction and essentially be the only ones able to bypass restrictions.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#105

Post by jfengel »

EMM_386 wrote: post #96
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well sure it's for profit, but what exactly do we (the society) get if we allow millisecond investments in our companies? Compared to classic, long-term investments.

The common answer will be "liquidity". The honest answer is probably nothing.

Is liquidity even a real answer? The HFTs only work because the market would be made a moment later. A buyer and a seller already exist. If they didn't, it wouldn't be high-frequency trading. it would just be "trading".

As far as I can tell, it neither benefits us, nor costs us. It siphons off a tiny fraction of money, too small to notice, but large enough in aggregate. Some parasite gets to survive, which is annoying if you look directly at it, but ignorable if you don't.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#106

Post by tails4e »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #76
ortusdux wrote: post #13

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

Am I the only one who thinks HFT should be forbidden? Stocks and investments are a nice thing to have, since you can buy a share of a company you believe in, they get the money, do stuff, you get dividends and in the end can sell the stock after some time too. HFT changes these "beliefs in company" to "beliefs that the stock will go up", and the timeframe of those "beliefs" is sometimes in milliseconds. This turns cl…

I agree. HFT goes against the original ethos of a market open to all. Instead of trading on the merit of a given company, it simply reinforces the market is increasingly gamified and unfair. It's like futures, no ones cares about the commodity being traded, or that doing so can really hurt people and business that rely on that item, it's just another item to be gambled.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#107

Post by [deleted] »

ortusdux wrote: post #13

Current fiber optic cables transmit signals at 2/3rds the speed of light. Modeling has shown that starlink's laser backbone would allow it to beat deep-sea cables in some situations. This article estimates a NYSE -> FTSE reduction from 76ms to 43ms. I wouldn't be surprised to learn that there is a HFT bidding war going on. https://archmeregreenarch.org/1456/news/starlink-and-the-ris... There is a newer version of fib…

[deleted]

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#108

Post by nvahalik »

NohatCoder wrote: post #73
eqvinox wrote: post #65

This sure sounds useful, but "might remove need for deep-sea cables" is quite silly. Anything they do to cram bandwidth into their laser link can reasonably also be applied to fiber optical cables. Except the fiber optical cables come in bundles of 12 to 144 with absolutely no separation issues. Replicating that over open space (air or vacuum), if reasonably possible at all, will chug significant amounts of power in…

On top of this I really doubt the claim about working in bad weather. Some weather will work, sure, maybe at reduced speeds. But if there is a proper cloud in the way, the near-visible 1550 nm light will be scattered completely.

Not to mention stuff like Solar flares.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#109

Post by beirut_bootleg »

marcell wrote: post #101
ajsnigrutin wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one who thinks HFT should be forbidden? Stocks and investments are a nice thing to have, since you can buy a share of a company you believe in, they get the money, do stuff, you get dividends and in the end can sell the stock after some time too. HFT changes these "beliefs in company" to "beliefs that the stock will go up", and the timeframe of those "beliefs" is sometimes in milliseconds. This turns cl…

What's the actual harm of HFT for the average person? I can set a $ limit on my orders, so I don't pay more than I want. Why should I care if some HFT guy scrapes 0.01% value off each trade?

It scrapes that % every trade, every millisecond, thousands of times over. That adds up, and all that money has to come from somewhere.

Re: Lasers enable satellite internet backbone, might remove need for deep-sea cables

#110

Post by paulsutter »

gnopgnip wrote: post #98
willis936 wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would that look like? If you rate limit stock exchanges to something like 1 update per minute then there will likely be the same amount of networking and computation going on to speculate on the next update and calculate optimal plays. It just moves it to behind closed doors where it is harder to know if shenanigans are going on. It would take a heavier hand to push against this problem. I'm all for it, I'm just…

Raising the financial transaction tax to 0.1%, 1$ per $1000 would eliminate the vast majority of unproductive and rent seeking HFT without negatively effecting liquidity. The US already has an FTT to fund the SEC, implementation should be straightforward. Currently the rate is very low, about 0.002%. Raising the rate would be minimally impactful for longer term investors and generate on the order of $50b a year for t…

do you have a link, love to learn how it worked out in other places
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