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U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

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Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#421

Post by ShadowBanThis01 »

ecshafer wrote: post #51
luxurytent wrote: post #11

I guess pickup trucks fall under the category of SUVs? It's wild how we've lost access to our streets and neighbourhoods for the convenience of mostly suburban vehicle users. Actually not wild, but disgraceful. The majority of roads are too wide and with little options for alternative modes of transport, drivers are growingly frustrated and angry on the road. We continue to make the mistake of thinking the solution i…

This is a relatively easy fix. Remove zoning regulation and the market should build towards denser towns. It is outright illegal to build dense right now in most of the US. There are other ares that need to be fixed that all exacerbate the issue: The NHSTA recommends large wide roads for moving vehicles faster, CAFE standards makes cars heavier and larger since trucks / suvs don't have the same regulations, FHA loans…

How is that a solution? Downtown L.A., for example, is not "full." And if you "densify" what are now single-family neighborhoods, that single-family neighborhood will simply move to the next frontier. Then the oh-so-horrible reign of terror will continue there. How does that help?

Zoning allows people to choose what kind of neighborhood they want to live in. If I wanted density, I'd live downtown. Why should developers be allowed to just roam in and destroy the lifestyle that the people in the area selected?

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#422

Post by Tiktaalik »

wussboy wrote: post #101
apsec112 wrote: post #23

I'm not even slightly surprised by this, sadly. Cops need to start ticketing people who drive like maniacs. I drive in DC, and every week I almost get hit by some loon going 30+ over the limit who doesn't care that I'm in the lane they're merging into. I've never seen anyone get ticketed. The roads have become something out of Mad Max , just pure developing-world anarchy.

Enforcement is not the solution because it requires constant vigilance. Road design is because you can build the road in a way that brings about the speed/safety envelope you desire, and then it always works correctly whether anyone is monitoring it or not.

We need automatic enforcement via speed cameras and such, but whenever these are brought in, the car lobby moans about how it's a "cash grab" and not about saving people's lives.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#423

Post by bialpio »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #333
aidenn0 wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are two numbers on the sticker for fuel efficiency. In-town and highway. For in-town weight matters greatly (both because you essentially throw away energy every time you break, and because rolling-resistance matters more at low speed). For highway, up until 2008 the maximum speed tested was 55, which disadvantages heavy-vehicles, as rolling resistance is a higher component of energy used at lower speeds (as a…

The thread was specifically about a road trip. I can't imagine anyone taking a road trip entirely in town.

Driving around Yosemite or Yellowstone is gonna be closer to in-town riding than to highway riding. I wouldn't be too surprised if time spent on driving at the destination was ~50% of my driving time at some road trips I took.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#424

Post by VirusNewbie »

foxyv wrote: post #168
VirusNewbie wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are pedestrian and bike bridged out of the question?

Pedestrian and bike bridges are car infrastructure. You can tell because they make the person who is moving under their own power, climb a set of stairs, walk across the bridge, and then walk down the stairs. In the meantime, the most vulnerable road users (Disabled people) have to cross 2 miles down the road at a deadly intersection. All the while, people who are sitting in air conditioned motorized vehicles have a…

Considering how much of the country is suburbs with large streets or freeways separating housing tracts from shopping centers, is your proposal really to close those freeways and arterial streets down? Or just demolish all the homes that are there and move those people to higher density areas?

I'm sympathetic to the idea of building new large developments in a non car centric fashion, but how do you do this with the majority of existing areas.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#425

Post by bluescrn »

giraffe_lady wrote: post #395
e40 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The "defund the police" movement that happened just before Covid has contributed to police pulling back enforcement of all sorts of things. Also, many cities have a "no chase" rule for police now because of high-profile crashes which killed people. Guessing the lawsuit payouts were large and contributed to the decisions. I think people realized there are no consequences so decided to do what the heck they wanted.

> The "defund the police" movement that happened just before Covid has contributed to police pulling back enforcement of all sorts of things. How? That movement failed and police have more funding now. If you're paying them more and they're doing less that's a problem between y'all. You got what you wanted you don't also get to blame us.

I suspect that a movement that took the 'ACAB' slogan mainstream did a pretty good job of demoralising the police, though, leaving them less effective even with increased funding. Why should they risk their lives for a society that hates them?

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#426

Post by Tiktaalik »

SoftTalker wrote: post #204
brightstep wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always amazing to me how on this engineering-heavy forum, so many users fail to recognize the benefit some simple engineering can deliver.

Well because the roads are what they are, and "reengineering" them to be something else would take years, would be disruptive, and cost millions. So at best you'll get change when the road needs to be rebuilt anyway, because it's worn out.

Not really.

You can make a new protected bike lane by just throwing a bunch of jersey barriers on the side of a road. It costs (in relative transportation cost terms) almost nothing.

These sort of things would instantly make the roads dramatically safer.

The only reason this isn't done isn't due to cost, but due to political opposition to having any amount of road space removed from exclusive car use.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#427

Post by rootusrootus »

SoftTalker wrote: post #150
mytailorisrich wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Densification" can eaily lead to poorer quality of life and oppressive housing, though. There is a middle ground, I think. I like individual houses with gardens (most people do, I think) with a size such that convenience stores are viable and reacheable on foot. It's like that in my area (England): good size houses but it's dense enough that I can walk to 2-3 different convenience stores when I need a few things, wi…

What is your definition of a convenience store? To me, a convenience store sells candy, snacks, beverages, sometimes coffee and rather nasty hot prepared food, vapes and tobacco products. 95% of what a convenience store sells is stuff that you really should not be eating. Perhaps they'll have a small basket of apples or bananas, but they are a far cry from the small grocery stores I've seen in European neighborhoods…

I live in a suburb in Oregon and our local convenience store, within easy walking distance, is a small market. Half dozen aisles, perhaps 2500sf of floor space. Yes they have some traditional 'convenience store' items like you describe -- mediocre hot food, fountain drinks, and snacks. They also have a decent selection of all the usual things you find at a larger market, just without the same variety of each item. Milk, eggs, meat, dry good, etc. Marked about 25-50% compared to the nearest large store, but for that I'd have to drive.

I sometimes get the impression that HN folks think there's only one kind of suburb in America.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#428

Post by sidewndr46 »

_Microft wrote: post #396
sidewndr46 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does weight matter on a road trip? Unless you are exclusively driving at 30 mph uphill I don't see it mattering much. Wind resistance is the dominant force. This is the same reason why most railroads put limitations on the maximum grade they have to climb. They are mainly working against wind resistance, not gravity.

Road damage scales with fourth power of axle load. A car that is 50% heavier does 5 times the damage. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_power_law

The thread was about fuel economy on a road trip.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#429

Post by Scoundreller »

masklinn wrote: post #291
tootie wrote: post #246

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There was a brief and futile anti-SUV movement in the 90s. Manufacturers generally got much better about size and safety compared to what they were, but they still sell based primarily on looks. For anyone who actually needs all that interior space, you're always better off with a minivan. And really most people, even families, can make do with a regular sedan. I've got a wife and two kids we can fit ourselves and en…

> And really most people, even families, can make do with a regular sedan. That’s still the norm in Europe. Every summer you see the Dutch migrating through France in station wagons. A roof carrier or a small trailer does wonder (when you don’t just go with a camper).

Even the same sedans are built with different engine options between North America and Europe.

Europe models will start with smaller engines that are just unavailable in US models.

No idea why given Europe has mountains too and 120 and 130km/h speed limits are the highway norm but often with shorter on-ramps.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#430

Post by rootusrootus »

throwaway22032 wrote: post #191
mytailorisrich wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Densification" can eaily lead to poorer quality of life and oppressive housing, though. There is a middle ground, I think. I like individual houses with gardens (most people do, I think) with a size such that convenience stores are viable and reacheable on foot. It's like that in my area (England): good size houses but it's dense enough that I can walk to 2-3 different convenience stores when I need a few things, wi…

The British terraced house to me is basically perfect urban development. Terraced housing allows places like London with a fully functioning public transport system whilst also allowing for a civilized home life, hobbies, gardening etc. It's one of the best things about UK cities IMO. I feel like people who are obsessed with towerblock apartments miss the forest for the trees.

That looks exactly like the type of row houses that have become extremely popular in the US over the years. At least in my region. Especially close to light rail and bus lines.
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