Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

text.npr.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–250 of 625 posts

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#241

Post by egberts1 »

Just a few moments ago, two pedestrians just jumped out in middle of a four-lane residential street that has no crosswalk for at least 400yd in either direction from behind a hedgerow. Didn't see it but lucky i was traveling 10 below speed limit (in a 40mph speed limit)

My "S"pecially "H"igh "I"ntensity "T"ooter emitted a 142 dB sound and the glee of watching both pedies startled and scurrying faster across the street barely brought a small measure of satisfaction.

But it is a sobering reminder that i need to get a dashcam because one of these days, I may not be able to have the response time to press the bullhorn (or worse, to brake) in a timely manner for a later court trial is not going to be a pleasant thing to go thru, death or not.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#242

Post by LeifCarrotson »

droopyEyelids wrote: post #125
westpfelia wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont have an answer for why. Just it has. I live in a major city in the midwest and its wild how often I see people drive with zero regard for anyone else. Running red lights and almost hitting someone, cutting people off, swerving in traffic erratically to be faster. Its honestly scary some days.

My experience mirrors yours perfectly. When the lockdowns started, people began to drive "crazier" for lack of a better term. I hesitate to speculate as to what caused it, but the difference was as clear as night and day.

My anecdote is remarkably similar. I worked from home for a couple months, then had to mask up for a couple of service calls on essential production lines... There was a massive step function between late February in 2020 and May 2020 on the roads from Michigan to Indiana and back. Coworkers and customers who told me they used to go 79mph in the left lane (because it was unlikely to earn a cheap 2-point ticket instead of 81+ which was a more probable and more expensive 4-point ticket) but now bragged about driving 90+ or hitting "triple digits". It was kind of like talking to a religious fundamentalist who can't understand how unbelievers restrain themselves without the Ten Commandments and threat of torture in the afterlife providing consequences for theft, murder, and adultery. I've never gotten a ticket and had no idea what the penalties were, the legal consequences were never a part of my reason for not driving unsafely.

Speed limits and traffic enforcement had been fully suspended, and people drove however they wanted to. It also felt like there was some griping about being part of the unlucky few who had to risk their lives for the sake of those who got to stay home in safety and comfort with all their necessities delivered.

My brother-in-law's laughing response to my description of my service call drive is etched in my memory. He'd been massively busy delivering pizzas, and after hearing about how I'd had my doors blown off, he said "Welcome to the apocalypse, we drive fast now!"

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#243

Post by kpennell »

e40 wrote: post #190
ethanbond wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would COVID/lockdowns have “changed the way people drive?” Any proposed mechanism? Seems more likely you had a lot of shifting around of people’s driving (e.g. city dwellers moving to suburbs)

The "defund the police" movement that happened just before Covid has contributed to police pulling back enforcement of all sorts of things. Also, many cities have a "no chase" rule for police now because of high-profile crashes which killed people. Guessing the lawsuit payouts were large and contributed to the decisions. I think people realized there are no consequences so decided to do what the heck they wanted.

In SF, enforcement of traffic laws has been steadily declining since 2014. It wasn't a covid thing: https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/article/s-f-supervisor-w... (they are trying to get them to do their jobs again but it's really tough)

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#244

Post by briandear »

ethanbond wrote: post #34
WillPostForFood wrote: post #13

Article ignores it, but looking at the source data you can see pedestrian deaths were flat, then a large spike in 2020 during Covid, and now we are at a new higher plateau. Cause is not a change in roads, or cars, or more SUVs. Covid/lockdowns changed the way people drive. Less civility, less police enforcement, more chaos. Driving is noticeably worse and more stressful than pre-Covid.

Why would COVID/lockdowns have “changed the way people drive?” Any proposed mechanism? Seems more likely you had a lot of shifting around of people’s driving (e.g. city dwellers moving to suburbs)

You have criminals getting out on low or no bond in higher numbers. You have serious issues with felony bond violations as well. You have reduced police enforcement. Your typical felon doesn’t car as much about traffic laws.

https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/articles/news/criminal-ju...

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#245

Post by SoftTalker »

injb wrote: post #41

In Europe the view is that bigger vehicle = bigger responsibility. In the US the attitude seems to be bigger vehicle = bigger right of way. The party who stands to lose the most is expected to yield the right of way.

Are trains required to stop at level crossings in Europe, because they have the bigger responsibility?

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#246

Post by tootie »

LarryDarrell wrote: post #225
luxurytent wrote: post #11

I guess pickup trucks fall under the category of SUVs? It's wild how we've lost access to our streets and neighbourhoods for the convenience of mostly suburban vehicle users. Actually not wild, but disgraceful. The majority of roads are too wide and with little options for alternative modes of transport, drivers are growingly frustrated and angry on the road. We continue to make the mistake of thinking the solution i…

We've been regulating the wrong things when it comes to vehicles. Instead of being obsessed with MPG, we should have been obsessed with weight and size. There's no reason for a sedan to be heavier than 3000 lbs. There's no reason 1/2 ton pickups should be bigger than a 1994 Ford F150. Once a car is light and small(ish) the good MPG will follow. My 1988 Volvo 240 got 30mpg on a recent road trip and that's with it need…

There was a brief and futile anti-SUV movement in the 90s. Manufacturers generally got much better about size and safety compared to what they were, but they still sell based primarily on looks. For anyone who actually needs all that interior space, you're always better off with a minivan. And really most people, even families, can make do with a regular sedan. I've got a wife and two kids we can fit ourselves and enough junk for a 4-day vacation in a compact pretty easily (which I rent as needed because I live in a walkable city).

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#247

Post by berkes »

SoftTalker wrote: post #204
brightstep wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's always amazing to me how on this engineering-heavy forum, so many users fail to recognize the benefit some simple engineering can deliver.

Well because the roads are what they are, and "reengineering" them to be something else would take years, would be disruptive, and cost millions. So at best you'll get change when the road needs to be rebuilt anyway, because it's worn out.

Roads are re-done constantly. I'm certain you passed a construction site in the last week of driving around - and I am certain without knowing your situation or where you live. Cities and communities have massive budgets to just maintain infrastructure.

Each such moment is one where small incremental improvements can be implemented. When a road from 2009 is re-done in 2024, govts can easily enforce that it must adhere to the 2020 guidelines. Each time a line is re-painted, it can be re-painted to increase safety. Each time a curb or bollard is fixed, it can be fixed to protect pedestrians just a bit better. etc.

Yes, it takes ages. But infrastructure is never finished it's a constant evolution of small steps. It's trivial and cheap (as in: free) to make those steps in the direction of more safety. All that is needed is a will do to so...

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#248

Post by apexalpha »

LarryDarrell wrote: post #225
luxurytent wrote: post #11

I guess pickup trucks fall under the category of SUVs? It's wild how we've lost access to our streets and neighbourhoods for the convenience of mostly suburban vehicle users. Actually not wild, but disgraceful. The majority of roads are too wide and with little options for alternative modes of transport, drivers are growingly frustrated and angry on the road. We continue to make the mistake of thinking the solution i…

We've been regulating the wrong things when it comes to vehicles. Instead of being obsessed with MPG, we should have been obsessed with weight and size. There's no reason for a sedan to be heavier than 3000 lbs. There's no reason 1/2 ton pickups should be bigger than a 1994 Ford F150. Once a car is light and small(ish) the good MPG will follow. My 1988 Volvo 240 got 30mpg on a recent road trip and that's with it need…

>Once a car is light and small(ish) the good MPG will follow. My 1988 Volvo 240 got 30mpg on a recent road trip and that's with it needing a tune up.

Doesn't this work both ways? If you focus on MPG then lighter, smaller variants of the same model will win out over bigger, heavier ones.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#249

Post by notacoward »

pkulak wrote: post #53
lotsofpulp wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In many areas, it would take a ton of work in the effort of making destinations closer to each other. Huge parking lots, setbacks, wide roads, and detached houses on their own quarter, or even eighth, of an acre lot make it so the choice between walking/bicycling and using a personal car is not much of a choice. Public transportation is also not an option due to how inconvenient it is due to how infrequently it would…

Sure, turning Houston into Madrid would be very hard. But this is one of the most incrementally solvable problems I've ever seen. There are hundreds of low-cost, low-effort ways to start making things better.

Key point: all of these "low cost, low effort" ways depend on people staying where they have influence. Any change to zoning laws, or to approve funding for bike and public-transit infrastructure, etc., requires residents who support those things. People who grew up in a city because that's where their parents lived, or who run away from the suburbs to the cities (or to other countries), have zero influence over the problem where it exists and therefore have little moral standing in these debates. Don't just make things better for yourself. Don't be a coward. Stand and fight.

Re: U.S. pedestrian deaths reach a 40-year high

#250

Post by actionablefiber »

somenameforme wrote: post #209

This article seems to be based on a butchery of statistics, for the sake of a headline. It's referring to total deaths, not per capita, let alone per pedestrian. The article breathlessly claims that, "...more than 7,500 pedestrians were killed by drivers last year — the highest number since 1981." Not only has the population increased by more than 100 million people since 1981, but the number of pedestrians has incre…

The number was 4,109 in 2009[1]. In 2022 the number is 7,509, per TFA.

We are in the middle of an alarming rebound that has significantly outpaced population growth.

[1]https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/07/us/pedestrian-deaths.html

Post reply on HN