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Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

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Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#711

Post by kneebonian »

d--b wrote: post #632
noname2021 wrote: post #444

Here's a thought and I am writing this as I don my kevlar flame retardant jacket. For most things in life where we could impact the lives of other people materially - driving is a good example - we ensure some minimal amount of training before letting people perform that activity. However with parenting we have nothing and the result it seems is we pay with a ton more resources downstream in the way of therapy, deten…

This is a great idea. One of the things that Finance people do is force employees to have short computer-based trainings every year. They seem stupid and bother everyone, but I think they are fairly effective (and they've been going on for years, so they must have proven some level of effectiveness). Health insurance providers could be forced to have parents do a yearly 1-hour training on how to handle kids to enable…

> and they've been going on for years, so they must have proven some level of effectiveness

They are effective

In reducing the liability of the company that is forcing it's employees to take the course. As for actual behavioral change, that is often not the case.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#712

Post by AdamN »

orasis wrote: post #606
noname2021 wrote: post #444

Here's a thought and I am writing this as I don my kevlar flame retardant jacket. For most things in life where we could impact the lives of other people materially - driving is a good example - we ensure some minimal amount of training before letting people perform that activity. However with parenting we have nothing and the result it seems is we pay with a ton more resources downstream in the way of therapy, deten…

You don’t learn how to parent, you learn how to live, in a wholehearted way, and you model that for your children. Good parenting is foremost about growing up before your kids do.

I can't downvote this enough. Sure, it's true that experience is the best way to learn but that method leads to alot of dead ends that society then has to deal with. Saying that parents can self-learn and self-evolve totally distracts the reader away from the original comment which is about the critical need for society to better support parents structurally. Most of us don't live in multi-generational communes where this stuff might happen without a structured approach ... and for all those new parents who do not, the need is great.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#713

Post by erenyeager »

version_five wrote: post #103

This sounds like they're not really taking into account boys needs, with the idea that we shouldn't be "gendered" when relating to them. This made me think of Andrew Tate, who is a douchebag, but has a huge following with young men, apparently because he has found a way to appeal to them emotionally. Anyone who is looking at how to push boys in the right direction should look at what appeals to them and meet them whe…

If you look past the surface and pomp, a lot of Tate’s takes have a degree of sensibility in the absurd culture we exist in. For example, his take on how hookup culture is damaging & the motivations of men & women differ was very insightful. He noted, men feel honor in their wives being chaste, and women feel happy in being protected & provided for by men, but culture distorts these underlying biological realities. Many of his ideas are presented in an inflammatory manner but dig deeper and more insight wells.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#714

Post by FrustratedMonky »

arp242 wrote: post #253
brickteacup wrote: post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wanna ask whoever wrote that if trans men are included

Speaking of which, I felt [1] was a rather interesting article on that. Multiple people are interviewed and their experiences differ, but stuff like this really stands out, and especially that last paragraph is pretty relevant here: Prior to my transition, I was an outspoken radical feminist. I spoke up often, loudly and with confidence. I was encouraged to speak up. I was given awards for my efforts, literally — it…

Wonder how much of this is built in.

Robert Sapolsky studies baboons, and I heard him describe this same behavior.

Males would were in constant competition, and if one tripped up in any way, the others jumped him.

Females would protect each other, form a group to help each other. If one tripped up, the others would come to their aid.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#715

Post by wmidwestranger »

Khaine wrote: post #470

What's interesting is that I recently watched The Red Pill Documentary. I recall when it was released that the director, Cassie Jaye a self professed feminist was pilloried absolutely everywhere for giving a voice to Mens Rights Activists. The actual documentary is quite milquetoast. What it is, is her engaging with the ideas around how in some ways men are disadvantaged in modern society. It's fascinating to me that…

I feel the same about "The Red Pill" movie and couldn't see how the criticism aligned with the reality. What I do see often is that entrenched actors and groups will attack, with specially reserved ardor, any artist or production taking a position of understanding and shared interest between groups or actors that are meant to be at odds.

With this movie, the critics could have said the filmmaker, Alex Lee Moyer, avoided the most misogynistic fringe that could be associated with the Men's Rights movement and been correct but that would undermine the safe thing to say, that the _entire_ Men's Rights movement is fringe and misogynistic.

I'm not especially interested in Men's Rights but I thought the movie was a refreshing surprise, commend the risk taken by the creator, and hope people continue to take risks when the evidence leads them into the unexpected.

PS: The film maker went on to make "TFW No GF" which followed and explored lonely, young men. Searching "Alex Lee Moyer", the second result is a Rolling Stone article on this movie with the headline, "‘TFW No GF’ Is a Deeply Uncomfortable Portrayal of Incel Culture". Here are just a couple quotes that show how much bull this director has had thrown her way for her troubles:

> This non-judgmental approach has made many viewers deeply uncomfortable, with writer Eric Langberg tweeting that the film is “one of the most irresponsible docs I’ve ever seen,” leading to a barrage of abuse from incels on Twitter.

> But even if you believe that objectivity is the best approach to capturing a subculture marked by misogyny, violence, and racism, it’s hard to accept the argument that the film’s relationship with its subjects is wholly objective in the first place.

Clearly, how dare she go and explore this sub-culture by meeting and filming some of its members, willing or not, without reminding the audience that these are bad people that say bad things on the internet and laugh at bad jokes.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#716

Post by stared »

boffinAudio wrote: post #692
stared wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Eugenics is a vile and repugnant subject to be supporting. Nobody is qualified to state whether another human being should be allowed to live on the basis of 'faults' in their person. It is a totalitarian-authoritarian dogma that must die. EDIT: downvoters showing their roots. Come on, engage in the dialog and defend eugenics ...

[flagged]

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#717

Post by zpeti »

davidguetta wrote: post #626
_xnmw wrote: post #593

OK, this is going to sound extremely controversial, but as a person who lived for many years in three different worlds: 1. The Western world (born/raised/educated in Canada) 2. The Arab world (lived for years in Jordan, have Muslim/Arab roots) 3. Eastern Europe (currently living in Ukraine for many years, now volunteering in the war) My observation is that 1. has an overly effeminate culture and harmfully stifles mas…

Interesting. I thought for 1 there was actually both : half men are effeminate and the other half basically ultra-masculine gym bros ^^. Eastern Europe looks interesting tho

> basically ultra-masculine gym bros

I don't think that's ultra masculine. At least people around me like that are self obsessed, appearance obsessed but ultimately fragile men. I also know because I was probably almost the same. I had a beard and looked like a lumberjack. Was I a real man? Not really.

I'm not saying I now know what a man should be, but it definitely isn't an ultra masculine gym bro. It is someone who can create a stable, responsible, potentially loving environment for a family, someone who can endure a lot of strain and responsibility while still holding it together. It also helps if you have a goal in life other than "look good naked".

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#718

Post by trelane »

corinroyal wrote: post #57

In the nineties I joined a men's group retreat where we circled up and listened to each other's struggles, gave lots of support, and lots of hugs. Then we did some consciousness raising around circumcision and it's barbarity. We took our cue from the Feminist movement. They were getting their shit together and so could we. Gary Snyder read his gorgeous nature poetry, Peter Berg sold us on a green cities concept that…

> In the nineties I joined a men's group retreat where we circled up and listened to each other's struggles, gave lots of support, and lots of hugs. Then we did some consciousness raising around circumcision and it's barbarity. We took our cue from the Feminist movement. They were getting their shit together and so could we. Gary Snyder read his gorgeous nature poetry, Peter Berg sold us on a green cities concept that would make our urban areas more livable.

I remember this. I wasn't old enough to join up, but I'd not have.

It was widely ridiculed at the time, and most folks didn't really respect it.

It wasn't the MRM that killed your movement; it just never took off, and was never really positively received by wider society.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#719

Post by alphager »

globular-toast wrote: post #686
prmoustache wrote: post #669

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH I was the only male in my daughter's classes whatsapp group for parents. Most fathers seemed to be glad the mother was handling that shit. And I doubt I was the only divorced father with shared custody.

What is a parents' WhatsApp group for?

From things like "my son left his math book in school, can someone send a picture of page 23 so we can prepare for the test" to "my daughter didn't write down the homework assignments; can someone send them" to organizing the class outing, discussing general issues with teachers or the schools organization.

Re: Ignoring boys' emotional needs fuels public health risks

#720

Post by itsoktocry »

noname2021 wrote: post #444

Here's a thought and I am writing this as I don my kevlar flame retardant jacket. For most things in life where we could impact the lives of other people materially - driving is a good example - we ensure some minimal amount of training before letting people perform that activity. However with parenting we have nothing and the result it seems is we pay with a ton more resources downstream in the way of therapy, deten…

>How about some minimal coaching so that all parents are aware of the state of the art in child psychology

What is "state of the art" in psychology? A bunch of irreproducible papers?

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