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Spyware in Europe: EU to allow intrusive surveillance of journalists

brusselstimes.com

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Re: Spyware in Europe: EU to allow intrusive surveillance of journalists

#21

Post by toyg »

lakomen wrote: post #14

The EU is progressively turning into a totalitarian construct. Especially when it comes to digital laws and spying on its citizens. But when the base is faulty (Lisboa treaty) you can't expect the construct not to be faulty. Their actions give wind to right wing extremist parties throughout Europe.

It's not like the new law says governments must spy on journalists; it just doesn't try hard enough to protect them. That's like saying that because the US is utterly failing to ensure privacy of communications over the internet, it's a "totalitarian construct".

The truth is that, sometimes, in a democracy there just isn't enough political capital out there to pass a law that looks "obviously" right.

Re: Spyware in Europe: EU to allow intrusive surveillance of journalists

#22

Post by CrisMystik »

lakomen wrote: post #14

The EU is progressively turning into a totalitarian construct. Especially when it comes to digital laws and spying on its citizens. But when the base is faulty (Lisboa treaty) you can't expect the construct not to be faulty. Their actions give wind to right wing extremist parties throughout Europe.

What's the problem with the Lisbon Treaty?

Re: Spyware in Europe: EU to allow intrusive surveillance of journalists

#23

Post by phendrenad2 »

toyg wrote: post #21
lakomen wrote: post #14

The EU is progressively turning into a totalitarian construct. Especially when it comes to digital laws and spying on its citizens. But when the base is faulty (Lisboa treaty) you can't expect the construct not to be faulty. Their actions give wind to right wing extremist parties throughout Europe.

It's not like the new law says governments must spy on journalists; it just doesn't try hard enough to protect them. That's like saying that because the US is utterly failing to ensure privacy of communications over the internet, it's a "totalitarian construct". The truth is that, sometimes, in a democracy there just isn't enough political capital out there to pass a law that looks "obviously" right.

The two most prominent EU member states amended the law specifically to remove the prohibitions on states spying on journalists. So this is still newsworthy.

Re: Spyware in Europe: EU to allow intrusive surveillance of journalists

#24

Post by toyg »

phendrenad2 wrote: post #23
toyg wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like the new law says governments must spy on journalists; it just doesn't try hard enough to protect them. That's like saying that because the US is utterly failing to ensure privacy of communications over the internet, it's a "totalitarian construct". The truth is that, sometimes, in a democracy there just isn't enough political capital out there to pass a law that looks "obviously" right.

The two most prominent EU member states amended the law specifically to remove the prohibitions on states spying on journalists. So this is still newsworthy.

Absolutely. But it's ludicrous for people to say this means the EU is becoming "totalitarian". This is how we cheapen words, like we used to do with "Nazi" before Godwin's Law saved us from the worst of it.

Re: Spyware in Europe: EU to allow intrusive surveillance of journalists

#25

Post by LatteLazy »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #16
LatteLazy wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realpolitik. China and Russia that supply us with gas and cheap plastic and do as they're told are fine. A china or Russia that don't do as they're told must be dealt with. No amount of democracy or freedom or lawful behavior changes that. That's why we did nothing to make Russia open and democratic and part of a global future, when they literally begged us to.

Multi-polarity is already happening, there's not a lot the West can do to change that.

I don't know, it isn't going great for Russia. The US has pretty successfully isolated them and they're stuck in a pointless meat grinder war-for-nothing in Ukraine.

We will see what happens with China, personally I don't fancy their chances either. They're boxed in pretty effectively in most directions and reliant on US trade (and debt).

We will see...

Re: Spyware in Europe: EU to allow intrusive surveillance of journalists

#26

Post by WeylandYutani »

justinclift wrote: post #9
WeylandYutani wrote: post #7

There was a recent case in the Netherlands were a lawyer used his client privilege to help a drug dealer run his empire. edit: From a maximum security prison. It was hilarious. If you want to do spying you don't exclude anyone or it's pointless. Journalist is a great cover for spies- ask the CIA.

Sometimes, you just need to allow those holes to be there, even though it means putting in extra effort to catch the bad actors in a different way. Otherwise, what's the point of having journalists around that try to uncover corruption of government / military / security services?

Those holes will be exploited by our American and Chinese enemies. Naivety will get the EU killed.

Re: Spyware in Europe: EU to allow intrusive surveillance of journalists

#27

Post by justinclift »

WeylandYutani wrote: post #26
justinclift wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes, you just need to allow those holes to be there, even though it means putting in extra effort to catch the bad actors in a different way. Otherwise, what's the point of having journalists around that try to uncover corruption of government / military / security services?

Those holes will be exploited by our American and Chinese enemies. Naivety will get the EU killed.

Heh Heh Heh

I guess you're not really considering that allowing or encouraging corruption internally can also kill a government?

Note that China has been through multiple "purges" of corrupt officials. (Strangely, it seems to happen whenever they have a new leader who needs to remove competitors. ;)) So the corruption potential seems to be present everywhere.

It's just that in the west we've (thus far) recognised the problem, and journalists are part of that solution.

Removing that solution due to fear seems to be a bad direction for long term survival as well.

Re: Spyware in Europe: EU to allow intrusive surveillance of journalists

#28

Post by tinus_hn »

toyg wrote: post #21
lakomen wrote: post #14

The EU is progressively turning into a totalitarian construct. Especially when it comes to digital laws and spying on its citizens. But when the base is faulty (Lisboa treaty) you can't expect the construct not to be faulty. Their actions give wind to right wing extremist parties throughout Europe.

It's not like the new law says governments must spy on journalists; it just doesn't try hard enough to protect them. That's like saying that because the US is utterly failing to ensure privacy of communications over the internet, it's a "totalitarian construct". The truth is that, sometimes, in a democracy there just isn't enough political capital out there to pass a law that looks "obviously" right.

Arguably this faux democracy is even worse than the authoritarian rulership that peeps through the cracks.
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