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The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

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Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#191

Post by bobviolier »

scarface_74 wrote: post #105
bjackman wrote: post #4

I think this is fantastic news. It will be interesting to see how it affects the amount of phones that get discarded. I think the next bottleneck is likely to be software longevity. This has improved a lot lately! But basically I think phones have now reached a place like laptops and desktops where HW capabilities are stable, and there's no good reason for devices to be obsolete in 5 years any more. I wonder if regul…

> But basically I think phones have now reached a place like laptops and desktops where HW capabilities are stable, and there's no good reason for devices to be obsolete in 5 years any more. Unless you care about your phone working as a phone. 2G was discontinued years ago, 3G is rapidly being dropped by the carriers and how much longer before 4G is discontinued? > streamlining the Android update process? (To Google'…

It's pretty well explained here what Google is trying to do: https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modu...

That being said, Apple is atm way better in providing longterm software updates, but that doesn't mean Google isnt doing a lot of work there also.

Next to that, there is already a lot of apps that are updated through the Play Store instead of an OS update. Mail, Dialer, Android Auto, Photos, Camera, Keyboard, Contacts, Clock, Play services, ...

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#192

Post by theluketaylor »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #128
microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second proposed legislation from the article seems to require that at least 5 years of updates must be provided after the device was last sold. This is far more than many low-end and mid-range Android phones, moreover many Android phone manufacturers start counting after the device was released, not last sold. Interestingly, they also seem to put upper bounds on how quickly these updates should be rolled out. Eg.…

It would be interesting if a side effect of this proposed legislation, Android manufacturers stop pumping out new models as aggressively. It would make sense if that's how it turned out, because these manufacturers would effectively be crafting their own support nightmares by continuing to put out new models at a high cadence. This in turn should make for better parts availability since the window that any given mode…

Or it actually accelerates the model pumping. If the software has to be supported for 5 years after it’s last on sale there could be a perverse incentive to roll SKUs like crazy even if there are not any actual changes so you only have to support for the shortest possible time.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#193

Post by mftrhu »

superkuh wrote: post #97
ekianjo wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> used a phone there are almost no smartphones where you can easily replace the battery these days.

But there are options. And instead of having people chose themselves to pick these options and refuse to buy terrible phones the EU is instead saying it will use the force of government violence against other people so that only phones of their desired non-shittiness are sold there. I really don't thinking bringing violence into this situation is called for. The EU is showing is an implicit assumption that people can…

You are the one who is bringing "violence" up. Telling people that there are standards they have to abide by before you will be willing to associate with them - before the EU, made up of multiple institutions which are voted by and represent its citizens, will allow a certain kind of devices to be sold on its market - is not violence.

I have no idea how it could ever be considered "violence", given the fact that we are not talking about a law against human people - with or without volition - but against goods.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#194

Post by scarface_74 »

bobviolier wrote: post #191
scarface_74 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But basically I think phones have now reached a place like laptops and desktops where HW capabilities are stable, and there's no good reason for devices to be obsolete in 5 years any more. Unless you care about your phone working as a phone. 2G was discontinued years ago, 3G is rapidly being dropped by the carriers and how much longer before 4G is discontinued? > streamlining the Android update process? (To Google'…

It's pretty well explained here what Google is trying to do: https://www.xda-developers.com/android-project-mainline-modu... That being said, Apple is atm way better in providing longterm software updates, but that doesn't mean Google isnt doing a lot of work there also. Next to that, there is already a lot of apps that are updated through the Play Store instead of an OS update. Mail, Dialer, Android Auto, Photos, Ca…

They’ve been “trying to” do the same thing since 2014.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Android_One

And none of those apps help when there are security vulnerabilities at lower levels.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#195

Post by 908B64B197 »

tomjen3 wrote: post #58
microtonal wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The second proposed legislation from the article seems to require that at least 5 years of updates must be provided after the device was last sold. This is far more than many low-end and mid-range Android phones, moreover many Android phone manufacturers start counting after the device was released, not last sold. Interestingly, they also seem to put upper bounds on how quickly these updates should be rolled out. Eg.…

Is it? It is going to meant that Android can't take advantage of the high end features of the new phones that are being released, and that old and slow phones are going to get updates that makes them run even slower. To top it of, it is not like manufacturers are into throwing away money, so this will likely mean that prices on the cheapest phones will increase more.

It means you'll be getting a "This phone isn't available in your country" pop-up when shopping online and all SKUs sold in Europe by the maker's subsidiary will have different model numbers. Of course, because of the need to support the phone for longer on patched kernels and the impossibility of charging for updates, the phones will be more expensive. The removable battery will also mean that the phone isn't waterproof.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#196

Post by Barrin92 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #174
Barrin92 wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those people don't live in the EU. And anyhow the higher cost of the phone are balanced out by the increased longevity and support of the device. Lifetime cost may very well be lower when people end up replacing their phones less frequently and just have to swap a battery.

Has the EU also made poverty illegal?

Sort of? Almost all EU countries have social welfare nets and public services strong enough to have people's basic needs covered. I think in most countries welfare even directly covers basic phone plans.

We aren't in a situation where we need to allow environmentally damaging products here for the sake of the poor because they're not out on their own. This sounds like the old pro-sweatshop arguments people sometimes made about developing countries.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#197

Post by js8 »

pizza234 wrote: post #37
bjackman wrote: post #4

I think this is fantastic news. It will be interesting to see how it affects the amount of phones that get discarded. I think the next bottleneck is likely to be software longevity. This has improved a lot lately! But basically I think phones have now reached a place like laptops and desktops where HW capabilities are stable, and there's no good reason for devices to be obsolete in 5 years any more. I wonder if regul…

In my experience, the current bottleneck with (Android) phones is that the get very slow without any apparent reasons after a few years. I've had multiple reports of acquaintances complaining about their phones getting slow after a few years, and I've always assumed that they were just full of apps... until it happened to me. I can't find an unambiguois explanation; my guess is a mix of CPUs deteriorating over time d…

The bottleneck on the Asus phone I replaced recently and I had since 2017 or so (before that I had T-Mobile G1 for maybe 8 years) was the glass - it breaks really easily because there is no plastic protection along the edges as it used to be on older phones.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#198

Post by tomatocracy »

tormeh wrote: post #145
madeofpalk wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it'll play out differently on the low-end, but on the high-end it seems there's been some "soft collusion" where one manufacturer raised prices, and others saw that as a signal they can also raise their prices.

I think it's more that higher price = more flagship. A higher price is in itself a sales argument to a certain audience. If you just want a competent phone there's no reason to buy a flagship one.

Yes - at the very high end, smartphones are a luxury goods market. There's an old adage in luxury goods that "if your product isn't selling fast enough, raise the price".

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#199

Post by amlib »

scarface_74 wrote: post #116
vladvasiliu wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, my old iPhone 7 started to have a bulging battery. It started pushing on the screen, which started separating from the case. Since I could see the innards, that thing was probably no longer waterproof. I'd have to take it in for service, and I'm not certain that they guarantee its water tightness after a repair. Contrast this to my Galaxy S5. When the battery started bulging, I changed it with a new one, and I…

People always bring up the s5 and leave out the part that is only water proof if the cover is over the ports and if you make absolutely sure that the battery cover is on correctly.

Having replaceable batteries doesn't require phones to be built exactly like they were 15 years ago. It's more about the battery being a few easy steps away from being replaced rather than the current situation where you need a bunch of exoteric tools, lots of patience and disassembling about 80% of the phone just to get there. And then requiring even more steps in a potentially dangerous process to unglue it.

And by "easy steps" I mean not necessarily something that anyone could do with their own hands in 10 seconds (like the old phones), but at least something you could do with your own tools (standard COMMON screwdrivers and so on..) at your leisure within 10 minutes without having any prior practice, just following a simple guide. They CAN design something like this that also meets all the size, weight, cost, safety and water proofness characteristics of the current phones. They just don't chose to, either for lack of incentives (our competitors won't do it, why should we?) or just because they want to profit as much as they can on the back of their customers who know no better and has no way defend from this racket.

Re: The EU’s fight for user-replaceable smartphone batteries

#200

Post by DuckFeathers »

nonethewiser wrote: post #85
jacquesm wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is interesting that the EU only wants to regulate markets that they are not participating in. The EU only regulates markets they are participating in. The only country that regulates markets that they do not participate in is the United States, and for the most part they seem to be doing so for fairly good reasons (such as with the anti money laundering and anti terrorism financing laws). Though of course you ar…

Why are you ignoring what he means for an alternate interpretation of that particular sentence? He explicitly clarified that he’s talking about the EU not making smartphones. Your reply is more like hijacking his comment than actually conversing.

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