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All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

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Re: All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

#41

Post by Fordec »

xaedes wrote: post #15
Fordec wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has a much more fleshed out freight rail system and the vast majority of European countries have ocean access, so long range haul can be done by the cheapest form of transport of all, boat.

It is estimated that the full electrification of all railway tracks in Germany will be completed not earlier than 2070. But maybe I am confusing "Deutschlandtakt 2070" and the electrification of the tracks.

Well as of 2021 54% of German tracks are already electrified and have a 75% 2030 goal, so to claim it's going to take 50 years to do the other 46% seems wildly off base.

Re: All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

#42

Post by throwsway »

nborwankar wrote: post #39
throwsway wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and India's per capita emissions are about ten times lesser than Americans. Americans should stop driving bulldozers instead of blaming the poor

Per capita emissions are a distraction. The earth’s atmosphere doesn’t care how many people were involved. What matters is total emissions. On that front China leads by a factor of 4 or 5 over India and the U.S. which are roughly the same.

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Re: All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

#43

Post by pier25 »

nborwankar wrote: post #39
throwsway wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and India's per capita emissions are about ten times lesser than Americans. Americans should stop driving bulldozers instead of blaming the poor

Per capita emissions are a distraction. The earth’s atmosphere doesn’t care how many people were involved. What matters is total emissions. On that front China leads by a factor of 4 or 5 over India and the U.S. which are roughly the same.

Per capita emissions are a good indicator of the lifestyle of a country.

Total country emissions are an indicator of population and lifestyle. Since reducing the population is not an option for most countries, the solution is changing lifestyle.

Re: All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

#44

Post by billti »

burkaman wrote: post #40
nborwankar wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Per capita emissions are a distraction. The earth’s atmosphere doesn’t care how many people were involved. What matters is total emissions. On that front China leads by a factor of 4 or 5 over India and the U.S. which are roughly the same.

The atmosphere also doesn't care which governments are involved, or who is "leading". We need all the emissions to stop, this announcement is about 7.5% of the total which is quite significant. 12 more of those and we're done.

I thought China and India were still increasing quite rapidly (I could be wrong). Unless they start going the other way, that 7% will be less than the growth from others, so no closer to 0 globally.

Re: All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

#45

Post by it_citizen »

throwme_123 wrote: post #28

Good thing and since it's a world problem, what matters the most is: 1. Also reduce emissions in the US and China[^1], 2. Save the Amazon rainforest in Brazil and SEA mostly[^2]. The best would be to introduce a tax from the CO2 emitters paid to the forest countries if (and only if) they protect them. [^1]: https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/co2_m... [^2]: https://earthobservatory.nasa.gov/img/bio…

The CBAM should be a good first step to twist China and US arm into pricing their carbon as it should be.

Re: All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

#47

Post by HDMI_Cable »

nborwankar wrote: post #39
throwsway wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

China and India's per capita emissions are about ten times lesser than Americans. Americans should stop driving bulldozers instead of blaming the poor

Per capita emissions are a distraction. The earth’s atmosphere doesn’t care how many people were involved. What matters is total emissions. On that front China leads by a factor of 4 or 5 over India and the U.S. which are roughly the same.

Then again, the US having a much higher emissions per capita assumes that with comparatively much less effort, we can reduce our emission than India or China. For us, reducing our emissions by 10% would mean driving less, eat less beef, investing in new technologies, etc., while for India and China that would mean overturning years of industrialization.

While I do agree that both need to reduce emissions, we need to endure inconveniences and move our tax dollars to clean energy, while they have to continue being poor forever or spend inordinate amounts of money to industrialize using clean energy.

Re: All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

#48

Post by tredre3 »

billti wrote: post #27

Unless China and India cut emissions drastically it’s a drop in the ocean. There should be tariffs on the biggest emitters to the point where they can’t afford to NOT cut emissions if they want to trade good and services.

If we do as you say, then goods production will need to shift to the West. China and India will become a drop in the ocean, and we'll be the biggest polluters by far.

How about we stop acting as if the West wasn't just shifting pollution onto poorer nations by exploiting them as factories and landfills?

Re: All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

#49

Post by sidewndr46 »

Fordec wrote: post #12
NikolaNovak wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't fully understand these proclamations. Can we really actually electrify everything, everywhere , by then? And what about long distance travel and haul? EV still seem somewhat of a niche in that they have clear restrictions and constraints.

Europe has a much more fleshed out freight rail system and the vast majority of European countries have ocean access, so long range haul can be done by the cheapest form of transport of all, boat.

you do realize boats burn bunker right? One of the worst kinds of fuel. It's definitely not carbon neutral either.

Re: All EU Members are committed to achieving full climate neutrality by 2050

#50

Post by Fordec »

sidewndr46 wrote: post #49
Fordec wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europe has a much more fleshed out freight rail system and the vast majority of European countries have ocean access, so long range haul can be done by the cheapest form of transport of all, boat.

you do realize boats burn bunker right? One of the worst kinds of fuel. It's definitely not carbon neutral either.

As much as I prefer electrification, EUs policy on this front is clear. The shipping industry is one of the cited primary motivators for the EUs current Hydrogen infrastructure initiatives, such as the "Fit for 55" program.

Just as the EU are making moves on de-carbonizing road infrastructure, you do realize that people are thinking about the maritime aspect also? These net-zero 2050 commitments include maritime transport.

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