Live data from Hacker News

$900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

levels.fyi

251–260 of 351 posts

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you have a tax write off, then you don't have to pay that much tax. You can get legal insurance as well and get all that nonsense done for $20. Elderly people can go retire in Mexico and have a better life than whatever is possible in the US, in towns full of other retired people.

What are you writing off against W2 salary?

A) Donating illiquid assets to your own non-profit helps a lot. I typically have acquired or bought or created something in prior years that can offset this year's income.

That one is up to a 20% tax deduction on this year's income without spending any of this year's money. and it rolls forward 5 years if its value is greater than those percentages of your income. so it adds up if you keep incorporating that into your strategy.

I like this more than donating generally appreciated assets

B) Traditional 401k contribution, with W-2 salary this is up to $22,500 this year in most circumstances. But, the next part is important too for double tax deduction:

C) Borrow $50,000 from the 401k (assumes the 401k already had more money in it from prior years and good investments) and donate that $50,000 cash to the above non-profit. Borrowing from a 401k requires you to pay it back across an interval over 5 years. So in future years you're doing that + 401k contributions. Or paying it off whenever you want. Or just accepting the tax and 10% penalty. On years where you have a ton more deduction you might only be paying the 10% penalty if you chose not to repay your 401k.

So now lets add this up from a $300,000 base salary.

The government was originally looking at a $300,000 AGI to tax you on, but now you reduce this by

A) $60,000 B) $22,500 C) $50,000

so now they are only looking at a $167,500 AGI to tax you on, while you still have $167,500 + A) $60,000, so $227,500 cash. But you want to keep reducing that AGI from here.

Stop here if you're plan is to put cash in a bank account and never take any risk. This is probably already way too much for anybody addicted to conservative generic personal finance forums.

=======

D) I typically have some expenses for a side project or something intended to be profitable. The great thing about this is that it involves you buying things you already wanted to buy. if you're in tech that's consumer electronics, software licenses, good CPAs, lawyers, domains, subscriptions.

I'm being conservative when I say $30,000, but lets say you actually did an ad spend, the sky is the limit.

Your various side project pursuits just have to make revenue in 5 years to prove that its not a hobby. make an LLC for all of your various interests and get around to it making some money eventually.

For sake of this, you spent $30,000 of your own money (but realistically, all the banks offered you credit cards with high limits and you can float this balance for years too, and interest on business purchases can also be deducted, if you're not allergic to the mere concept of holding debt)

AGI: $137,500

E) did you get a mortgage yet? lots of deductions there on a highly leveraged asset. too many variables for this, but just the interest is deductible not the principle payments. you can play around with a lot here, such as paying interest up front to generate more tax deductions.

on a $2,000,000 property with a 30 year mortgage, let's assume another $30,000 in interest paid annually.

AGI: $107,500

F) was the mortgage on an investment property? investment property is also depreciably on its current assessed value divided by 27.5 (residential) or 39 (commercial). so, on a $2,000,000 property that's another $72,700 tax deduction every year.

AGI: $34,800

in conclusion with a "salary" or AGI of $34,808, according to SmartAsset.com for someone living in San Francisco, they would be on the hook for about $8,000 in taxes. This is effectively a 2.6% tax rate and you’ve already bought most of the consumptive goods you wanted to buy anyway and have plenty of cash left over for savings and investments.

not advice. I could go far more aggressive than that.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#252
post #28

Based on what I've seen/heard, they seem to follow a similar comp philosophy to Netflix -- pay top of market to get the best people. But it's also important to note that only $300K of that is in cash. The other $600K is in profit participation, which could take years (maybe even a decade!) to be realized. It could also be worth $6M a year when it's realized. But ultimately it's an investment of your time. Or to think…

I don't understand why people think sam has magic powers. He started one failed company and has no technical ability to make openai into anything more than it is.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#253
post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you are just not aware. C-Level folks make many millions a year, either liquid or paper. I am at FAANG and virtually everyone at L6 (staff Eng level, many thousands of people) is paid at least $500k, with monthly liquidity (no cliff). With a bit of luck stock wise, it’s also not uncommon at all to get to $500k+ at L5 (senior eng level, many dozens of thousands of people). Everyone in my SF network (hundreds…

Recently? That's wild. Work 4 or 5 years and retire lol

Yes, recently.

That has basically been my strategy. After a bit more than a decade of working in the Bay Area, immigrating from Europe, I accumulated $4M in liquid net worth invested in fairly diversified assets, so I’ll be pulling the plug not too far into the future, and retire in Europe. I still cannot believe that these opportunities exist: in my own country, doing the exact same job I’ve been doing, I would probably have less than €200k saved up.

I understand that people’s circumstances are incredibly different, but to the extent that one is willing to go through the discomfort of uprooting their lives, spending a few years in the Bay Area and making a lot of money is a no brainer arbitrage opportunity that is still wide open IMHO.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I read this here and there and don't doubt it, but then again I've never seen/met anyone IRL (outside of C-level) making this much money as an employee. Are they just extremely rare cases or am I just not aware of the valley and their customs?

I believe you are just not aware. C-Level folks make many millions a year, either liquid or paper. I am at FAANG and virtually everyone at L6 (staff Eng level, many thousands of people) is paid at least $500k, with monthly liquidity (no cliff). With a bit of luck stock wise, it’s also not uncommon at all to get to $500k+ at L5 (senior eng level, many dozens of thousands of people). Everyone in my SF network (hundreds…

> staff Eng level, many thousands of people

I don’t work at a FAANG so I could be totally off but I think there’s only about 1,000 L6+ at google [0] and they employ the most. So it’s not thousands of people at this level within a company. Maybe only a few thousand in total of all companies in the US.

[0] https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-are-at-each-level-of-t...

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#255
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find it more interesting that the sole proprietor landscaper doesn’t just become a developer and make $900k a year. Extrapolate this to literally anyone making less than a developer.

Those skill sets aren't interchangeable.

There is very low barrier to entry for being a developer. The only thing separating an unskilled individual and a developer is learning time.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you are just not aware. C-Level folks make many millions a year, either liquid or paper. I am at FAANG and virtually everyone at L6 (staff Eng level, many thousands of people) is paid at least $500k, with monthly liquidity (no cliff). With a bit of luck stock wise, it’s also not uncommon at all to get to $500k+ at L5 (senior eng level, many dozens of thousands of people). Everyone in my SF network (hundreds…

> staff Eng level, many thousands of people I don’t work at a FAANG so I could be totally off but I think there’s only about 1,000 L6+ at google [0] and they employ the most. So it’s not thousands of people at this level within a company. Maybe only a few thousand in total of all companies in the US. [0] https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-are-at-each-level-of-t...

I firmly believe you are off by an order of magnitude at least.

First, the comment you linked is 7 years old. Most FAANG companies increased their headcount many fold ever since.

Second, there is such a thing as title inflation, over time more and more people get promoted to their terminal level, which at my FAANG is very often L6, each tiny team has always at least one or two of them. There are many, many more than 937 L6s at my company. Hell, I know for a fact that there are several hundreds of distinguished engineers (L9) at my company, which is an incredibly hard level to reach, so do the math and then scale it across the entire valley.

Third, do not discount my comment about L5 compensation reaching that $500k+ level very often. L5 represent a very large portion of the talent pool, probably the first or second largest (after L4).

You clearly do not have to believe me nor take my word for it. Not a problem. I just want to make sure other readers hear both sides of the conversation.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

sure but it looks like you can sell PPU's to investors? no "right to first refusal" or some transfer restriction?

even if there was, while it might take a decade before IPO and market price discovery, it's almost expected that they would make a private tender offer sometime before that, letting employees realize some value of their shares long before 10 years is up.

or you could just sell and take the $900k or so, and plop it into some PE funds where you’ll be a preferred investor in a variety of high quality, lower valued, offerings and don't have to waste a decade of your life on the graciousness of one employer’s management and prospects

fingers crossed. don't forget to buy some of the S&P too.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you met any IC8+/D1+ working for Meta in the US?

Honestly, no. I mainly hang out w/ people from Europe and random parts of the States (like MA, they're paid good but not THAT good). Dumb question maybe, but now I'm curious. What does it really take to land a job like this one? Luck? Your network? Experience? All of it?

Mix of the above. It’s not dissimilar to investment banking or other highly compensated field. You need to get to the top of the top firms. The top of the top comes from the population of peer companies. The population of peer companies come from the population of lesser peers and top schools.

It’s not as easy as some posters make it sound, but it’s still on the order of 20-50k engineers. If you wonder why these firms move faster than the rest of the industry, this is a major contributor.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#259
post #12

It's always interesting to think about how someone somewhere is earning as much as you earn in a decade or lifetime in a single year. Also that you are that person for someone else.

This is a good point. I look at 900k$ and think wow from the perspective of my very well paid job in France. Getting 900k$ a year would bring great things to me and probably make me retire earlier. This will not be life-changing though. And then I think about people who earn 5% of what I do and for them multiplying their income by two would probably be truly life changing for them. And then these 900k$ do not look th…

I'd call "may retire, or work on whatever you want for the rest of your life, after a few years of saving" life-changing.

Re: $900k Median Package for Engineers at OpenAI

#260

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you writing off against W2 salary?

A) Donating illiquid assets to your own non-profit helps a lot. I typically have acquired or bought or created something in prior years that can offset this year's income. That one is up to a 20% tax deduction on this year's income without spending any of this year's money. and it rolls forward 5 years if its value is greater than those percentages of your income. so it adds up if you keep incorporating that into you…

I am just going to say one thing: what's the fair market value of art? or an alpaca? It's subjective.
Post reply on HN