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Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

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Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#51

Post by chongli »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #14
_V_ wrote: post #10

«We're on our way to Moscow, and anyone who entered our centres will answer for it» - Prigozhin https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/16723584970679705...

Is this a serious attempt at a military coup? Wagner's command is competent. The recent border incursions show Russia is lightly fortified, possibly Moscow, too. The wild card would appear to be the FSB. Do they tend ultranationalist? Or will they be loyal to Shoigu?

I really don’t know much about the FSB. How many forces do they have? How much equipment? We have seen that they’re capable of carrying out extraterritorial assassinations and have kept Putin in power for decades by infiltrating and breaking up and political opposition. This is a different story: a full-scale military coup by a private army.

But it remains to be seen whether or not Prigozhin would try to topple Putin or merely the army leadership in order to put himself in command of the war. The video statement I saw him make [1] would suggest he’s intending to gain control of Putin but keep him as a figurehead.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IvLiQysKPhQ

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#52

Post by WhereIsTheTruth »

What kind of reaction people expect from this hackernews post?

Anything that goes against the dogma will get shut down?

What's the veracity of this article to begin with?

In the age of digital transformation, what are the chances we are reading fake news from the Ukrainian front?

They attack each other? well, if they killed some russians and stole their missiles, it's easy to create confusion on the adversary camp, capture a general, train a model and spread fake news with deep fakes etc etc

Until we get a proper source, we can only speculate

Few days ago reports were saying that the counter offensive was a complete failure, so who to trust? where is the truth?

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#53

Post by JumpCrisscross »

bemusedthrow75 wrote: post #44
JumpCrisscross wrote: post #11

Prigozhin gaining power, potentially even over Putin, would be horrible for Russians, but stabilizing for Europe. (See: North Korea.)

He would stabilise nothing. You realise he's off his rocker, right? The stopped clock has just been momentarily right. There is no situation where it is a good idea that a mercenary army leader whose staff are criminals takes power over a nuclear-armed state.

> would stabilise nothing

Do we really expect Putin to manage a peaceful transfer of power? Devil you know, and all that.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#54

Post by _V_ »

chrisco255 wrote: post #41
_V_ wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well either this is the best psyop I have seen in a long time or something is happening: https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1672359193863487491

This is just armored vehicles rolling down a road. No context, no way to validate timestamp, no nothing. Even if it was precautionary stationing of troops, as done when the National Guard is activated, it doesn't mean the country is undergoing a revolution. Sorry.

Nothing stopping you searching Telegram *shrug emoji*

I'm trying to add more info but it is (as one might expect) quite chaotic right now.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#56

Post by yakshaving_jgt »

5e92cb50239222b wrote: post #5

There has been a lot of talk, but no concrete actions yet. No marches anywhere, no clashes between regular armed forces and the PMC, nothing. Some armored vehicles were put on the streets of Moscow and Rostov (which is located near the border with Ukraine), but that's about it. https://t.me/svtvnews/31224 https://t.me/svtvnews/31232

This is all unfolding literally right now. It looks like a military base in Moscow is now on fire.

Edit… Also reports of fighting between Wagner and russia's national guard on the Rostov-Moscow highway. Wagner are on the move towards Moscow.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#57

Post by [deleted] »

WhereIsTheTruth wrote: post #52

What kind of reaction people expect from this hackernews post? Anything that goes against the dogma will get shut down? What's the veracity of this article to begin with? In the age of digital transformation, what are the chances we are reading fake news from the Ukrainian front? They attack each other? well, if they killed some russians and stole their missiles, it's easy to create confusion on the adversary camp, c…

[deleted]

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#58

Post by [deleted] »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #40
rdtsc wrote: post #23

Wagner leader Prigozhin is gambling and betting everything on red (or black?). The problem for the Russian government is that many ordinary pro-war Russians see Prigozhin as a hero. If they kill him, he'll become a martyr. For all I care both sides are war criminals and should answer for their atrocities in Ukraine. If they can kill each other without also killing civilians, don't think we should stand in their way t…

> If they kill him, he'll become a martyr Prigozhin seems to be playing this savvily. Extremely savvily. He isn't directly threatening Putin. There is a face-saving change in which Shoigu et al are executed and Prigozhin and Putin split their cookies. Putin can frame it as discovering they lied to him, and possibly even re-set expectations for the war in Ukraine.

[deleted]

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#59

Post by tootie »

rdtsc wrote: post #23

Wagner leader Prigozhin is gambling and betting everything on red (or black?). The problem for the Russian government is that many ordinary pro-war Russians see Prigozhin as a hero. If they kill him, he'll become a martyr. For all I care both sides are war criminals and should answer for their atrocities in Ukraine. If they can kill each other without also killing civilians, don't think we should stand in their way t…

I'll say this, the guy is bold as hell. He's an absolute maniac and probably worse than Putin but he sure isn't afraid of anything. One can only hope he wrecks enough chaos make the war in Ukraine untenable.

I'll also say this, Putin played his hand as poorly as humanly possible. He spent decades stockpiling loyalty and political capital with an iron fist and spent it all in less two years and has absolutely nothing to show for it. I think it's time to admit that beneath his steely-eyed, stoic demeanor he isn't half as smart as he's been given credit for.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#60

Post by api »

_V_ wrote: post #33
dlahoda wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

prove?

Well either this is the best psyop I have seen in a long time or something is happening: https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1672359193863487491

It's the same people who faked the moon landings and the Sandy Hook shooting.

/jk

Something is clearly happening, but it's hard to tell exactly what. Fog of war and all that.

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