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Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

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Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#41
post #33
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

prove?

Well either this is the best psyop I have seen in a long time or something is happening: https://twitter.com/Liveuamap/status/1672359193863487491

This is just armored vehicles rolling down a road. No context, no way to validate timestamp, no nothing. Even if it was precautionary stationing of troops, as done when the National Guard is activated, it doesn't mean the country is undergoing a revolution. Sorry.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#42

Is there a deal Kyiv can strike with Putin in this moment?

Why would they want to? If this does escalate enough, it would make more sense for them to redouble the efforts for their offensive - they still have plenty of reserves that haven't entered the fray yet.

And then, if the plan to cut off Crimea succeeds, they could try to negotiate with Russia - on much stronger terms.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#43
post #23

Wagner leader Prigozhin is gambling and betting everything on red (or black?). The problem for the Russian government is that many ordinary pro-war Russians see Prigozhin as a hero. If they kill him, he'll become a martyr. For all I care both sides are war criminals and should answer for their atrocities in Ukraine. If they can kill each other without also killing civilians, don't think we should stand in their way t…

> If they kill him, he'll become a martyr Prigozhin seems to be playing this savvily. Extremely savvily. He isn't directly threatening Putin. There is a face-saving change in which Shoigu et al are executed and Prigozhin and Putin split their cookies. Putin can frame it as discovering they lied to him, and possibly even re-set expectations for the war in Ukraine.

What if the whole thing is about Putin setting up some lower level fall guys for a loss in Ukraine? Prigozhin maybe? Provoke him into doing something crazy, take him out, then claim he is responsible for failure on the front or even that he's a traitor and was working with Ukraine or something.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#44

Prigozhin gaining power, potentially even over Putin, would be horrible for Russians, but stabilizing for Europe. (See: North Korea.)

He would stabilise nothing.

You realise he's off his rocker, right? The stopped clock has just been momentarily right.

There is no situation where it is a good idea that a mercenary army leader whose staff are criminals takes power over a nuclear-armed state.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#45
post #10

«We're on our way to Moscow, and anyone who entered our centres will answer for it» - Prigozhin https://twitter.com/Gerashchenko_en/status/16723584970679705...

Is this a serious attempt at a military coup? Wagner's command is competent. The recent border incursions show Russia is lightly fortified, possibly Moscow, too. The wild card would appear to be the FSB. Do they tend ultranationalist? Or will they be loyal to Shoigu?

My guess is that either the Ministry of Defense or Putin ordered a hit on Prigohzin. It either failed or he got wind of it.

The best way to ensure his own safety at this point is a coup.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#46
post #42

Is there a deal Kyiv can strike with Putin in this moment?

Why would they want to? If this does escalate enough, it would make more sense for them to redouble the efforts for their offensive - they still have plenty of reserves that haven't entered the fray yet. And then , if the plan to cut off Crimea succeeds, they could try to negotiate with Russia - on much stronger terms.

> Why would they want to?

I don't know, when the board changes you look for openings. On the military side, I would use the distraction to extract battlefield gains. On the diplomatic side, maybe Putin is willing to give up more, now, than he (or his successor) will later.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#47

Zerohedge, which is basically just a Russian propaganda source, is saying that the Wagner chief is already attempting to walk back his comments. Which kind of makes sense, as a moderately sized PMC has approximately zero chance against the might of a nation. So I'm not really sure that anything is gonna happen here. Hope I'm wrong, though.

Related tangent: I predict that certain political movements in the US and Europe will implode if the Putin regime does. Would love to see if I'm right. Making popcorn.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#48
post #15

This is absurd. It makes no sense. I'm calling psyop.

It's easy to call something a psyop, but have you got a specific reason why this would be done? It's not like that would confuse their enemy in any way, same areas need reclaiming anyway, same troops can be observed. "There's internal conflict" has been known for a while and unless there's practical impact, it doesn't seem to affect what Ukraine needs to do.

Re: Wagner coup in Russia? Wagner declared war on the Russian army

#50
post #42

Is there a deal Kyiv can strike with Putin in this moment?

Why would they want to? If this does escalate enough, it would make more sense for them to redouble the efforts for their offensive - they still have plenty of reserves that haven't entered the fray yet. And then , if the plan to cut off Crimea succeeds, they could try to negotiate with Russia - on much stronger terms.

And Ukraine has the convenient position of just telling Wagner forces something along the lines of "you're a bunch of war criminals, but anyone observed retreating into Russia isn't going to be pursued" if they want to let the infighting do the maximum amount of damage.
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