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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#901

Post by bagels »

kristjansson wrote: post #466
beowulfey wrote: post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So many things about this venture were not really considered. I am terrified that this guy was an aerospace engineer. It feels like he threw the book about engineering safety out the window. The big one is designing the sub to travel to 95% of the expected maximum depth, leaving a 5% margin of safety. I was taught to aim for a margin of safety of (I think it was) 50% back in the day. Operating so close to the safe li…

There ... there were screws into the structual carbon fiber??

Some people saw that they had affixed things to the inside of the craft. There is almost assuredly an inner liner that is not structural that these were attached to. Just like an airplane.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#902

Post by [deleted] »

pixelfarmer wrote: post #889
mulmen wrote: post #829

The most troubling thing about this to me is Stockton Rush’s cavalier attitude toward ageism [1]. In considering young college graduates as uniquely “inspirational” he set them up for a lifetime of guilt. I don’t think age or race has any place in inspirational calculus. I’m uncomfortable with how comfortably he dismisses submariner veterans as “old white guys”. Engineering is a discipline that requires experience an…

What? Meditate on? What are you smoking? Anyone remembers the Boeing MAX 8 issues? Safety procedures / processes had been disabled on purpose for greed and people eventually died as a result. History has a truckload of examples in that direction, also because, despite better knowledge, proactively trying to prevent problems is often seen as some expense that is not needed ... until something happens and then the blam…

[deleted]

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#903

Post by krisoft »

barbs wrote: post #697
krisoft wrote: post #599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to people speculating that the passengers may have drowned In layman terms “drowned” simply means that you died under water. It is not a sophisticated statement about the manner of anyone’s passing. People in the know understand that on a submarine you can die of hypoxia (if they mismanage the oxygen), or die of hypothermia (if they get stuck on the bottom with an intact pressure vessel, but no electricity) or die…

I really don't think that's true at all. I consider drowning to be inhaling water and being unable to breathe, not just any death that happens underwater, and I imagine most people would think the same.

Sure. The people who said they have drowned probably think the same. But it doesn’t mean that they have carefully considered all the possible failure modes of a submersible and postulating that one which leads to a drowning is the most likely in this case. It expresses more a vibe that the speaker thinks they are dead.

But why not make it more concrete. Can you find a single example where someone says that they have drowned and the speaker means it as a carefull engineering analysis regarding failure modes, as opposed to a general vibe of “they dead”?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#904

Post by krisoft »

bilekas wrote: post #768
krisoft wrote: post #586

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Submarines cannot communicate more hundred meters in the bottom of sea. Sorry if I am misunderstanding you. It sounds like you are saying that it is impossible to design a system which would be able to keep in contact with the submarine/submersible all the way down to the bottom? Because if that is what you are saying that is simply false. We have the technology to keep in contact with a submarine all the way to th…

> Sorry if I am misunderstanding you. It sounds like you are saying that it is impossible to design a system which would be able to keep in contact with the submarine/submersible all the way down to the bottom? You can always throw a cable down, if you have a handy 2kM long one. Personally I'm not sure most people can actually grasp the scale of the ocean on it's own. We have the best we have already - transponders.…

> you've made a few here and that's unfortunately the mentality that can result in disaster

What assumptions have I made and how would they lead to disaster? Please be specific.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#905

Post by firecall »

I was reading the article, and it talked about if the bodies could be located and recovered. Which made me wonder:

What actually happens in an implosion like this?

Does the whole sub squash down, like stomping on a tin can? (Apologies for the graphic metaphor)

Does buckle in the middle, tear open and flood?

I heard it would be instant, which is a mercy for them.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#907

Post by inferiorhuman »

solumunus wrote: post #838
inferiorhuman wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there is value in living in the kind of society where you know that if you are lost at sea there will be arguably irrational levels of resources thrown into trying to find you. Sure, if you're rich. And not just the rich either, no matter what Twitter would have you believe. If you're poor you'll end up like the hundreds of children still stuck on the Andriana.

What about the insane amount of resources poured into saving that group of Thai teenagers trapped in a cave? That was a huge, extremely costly effort.

What about them? The warnings about the cave admonish people to not enter it between July and November, the group went in towards the end of June.

Oceangate had been warned by pretty much anyone with any knowledge of their efforts. They fired and sued their Director of Marine Ops who tried for stricter safety measures. They've already had to repair stress damage to the hull before the final dive. They were using parts not expected to hold up to 4000m dives, they were using flammable materials inside the sub.

The Thai team did something generally recognized as safe, and got caught up in a bad situation. The Oceangate folks did something that they'd been warned against repeatedly and consistently, something nobody thought was safe. Oceangate took every opportunity to do the wrong thing and try to profit off of it.

Insofar as wealth has anything to do with it, pedo guy happens to be pretty damn wealthy (ex financial broker). If those Thai kids hadn't caught a rich guy's attention their misadventure would've been a mere footnote.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#908

Post by 4gotunameagain »

jachee wrote: post #882
4gotunameagain wrote: post #861

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be pedantic, it was immigrants, not refugees. It is unnecessary sensationalisation to claim they were refugees. Unless of course in your point of view anyone that seeks a better future to avoid problems in their own country is a refugee, which could be a point of view but not one I (or dictionaries) agree with.

These aren’t people who applied to immigrate, following the prescribed process. They’re desperate people who are being literally smuggled across the Mediterranean to seek refuge in Europe. How are they not refugees?

Illegal immigrant and refugee are different terms.

UNHCR:

  Refugees are people who have been forced to flee their homes and have crossed an international border to find safety in another country.
Like the previous comment, you could argue that complex geopolitical circumstances "forced" these people to illegally immigrate, but then you could argue that everything is forced. You could argue that Europeans moving from one country to another because there is no work in their field are "forced". Are they refugees ?

  Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif of Pakistan declared Monday a day of mourning for Pakistanis who died after a fishing boat
There is no immediate threat of life in Pakistan. They were not refugees.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#909

Post by j-a-a-p »

jacquesm wrote: post #391
j-a-a-p wrote: post #279

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also the coastguards were tripping over each other to save these 5 men, while for the refugees the speculation is if the coastguard contributed to the wrecking.

Whose speculation?

Me it seems.

I thought to have read the boat capsized while being towed, as claimed by one of the survivors. Being towed could be an involuntary act, while throwing a line seems solely meant to help.

> The 104 survivors of the tragedy have very limited mobility and access to communications. Some of them said Greek Coast Guard vessels threw them a line shortly before their vessel capsized [1]

On a personal note. I myself got once rescued by the navy with their Zodiac. That was a mutually fantastic experience. I believe that coastguards anywhere would prefer to rescue above anything else, that is what they signed up for. I hope this dual tragedy will help the leadership to remove anything that creeps between that objective.

[1] https://english.elpais.com/international/2023-06-20/greece-i...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#910

Post by fishoutofth »

4gotunameagain wrote: post #861
gmerc wrote: post #748

Earlier quoted context omitted.

600 refugees drowned in the mediterranean and the captain of one of the non profit rescue vessels operating in the mediterranean is facing 20 years in prison. barf.

To be pedantic, it was immigrants, not refugees. It is unnecessary sensationalisation to claim they were refugees. Unless of course in your point of view anyone that seeks a better future to avoid problems in their own country is a refugee, which could be a point of view but not one I (or dictionaries) agree with.

I would argue paying a smuggler between $1,000 and $8,600 (quick google search) to hopefully get you across the sea (instead of selling you in a slave market) is a risk most people living in adequate conditions are not willing to take.
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