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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#841

Post by hodgesrm »

WalterBright wrote: post #722
jacquesm wrote: post #440

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting question. (One of very few on this subject that are really interesting.) Those who cause progress to happen to some extent have to have something in them that causes them to ignore conventional wisdom. Because they're swimming against the current. And if they succeed it may well pay off, both in credits and financially. Montgolfier brothers, Lilienthal, the Wright brothers and so on, and that's ju…

> Every one of them went against conventional wisdom and the laws of physics as they were known or suspected to be at the time. This is not true of the Wrights. Their first step was to gather together all the known aeronautical knowledge at the time. They relied on them, too, until they discovered the coefficient of lift was off by a factor of two. Then they built their own wind tunnel to determine the correct value.…

It's worth adding that they invented the first successful control system for an aircraft. [0] Personally I think that was the single most important step, because it enabled their aircraft (including test gliders) to fly safely.

[0] https://www.wright-brothers.org/History_Wing/Wright_Story/In...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#842

Post by Swinx43 »

whatscooking wrote: post #839
mulmen wrote: post #829

The most troubling thing about this to me is Stockton Rush’s cavalier attitude toward ageism [1]. In considering young college graduates as uniquely “inspirational” he set them up for a lifetime of guilt. I don’t think age or race has any place in inspirational calculus. I’m uncomfortable with how comfortably he dismisses submariner veterans as “old white guys”. Engineering is a discipline that requires experience an…

Most old engineers I’ve worked with are terrible and many younger ones are way more talented.

Your troll craft is somewhat lacking

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#843

Post by 111111IIIIIII »

colechristensen wrote: post #762
methodical wrote: post #315

Besides the "what about this other accident with 500 victims!!!", "these people are dumb", and the "look how they ignored safety!" comments, I can't help but be amazed at how events like this make people crawl out of the woodworks spouting complete falsities as if they're facts. I've seen so many boneheaded comments over the last few days that I don't even know how to list all of them out, from people saying that Tit…

I’m working on the right way to express this correctly but it seems to me pretty reliable that willingness to comment in public on any topic makes it much more likely that the commenter is demonstrably wrong / an extremist.

Maybe, but what's the likelihood that you're just demonstrably wrong / an extremist?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#844

Post by upon_drumhead »

antognini wrote: post #797
jethro_tell wrote: post #783

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not a chance. The whole problem with subs is that water weighs about 8lb per gallon. So, at 4000m you're looking at something between 4500 5500 psi. Thats a small truck worth of pressure every square inch in the hull. Once you breach the structure, think crushing a tin can in the middle, things collapse pretty fast. As do bodies. If you figure your body is 2 foot by 6 foot, the pressure would be like parking 100 full…

> creaking of the bulkheads One of the counterintuitive features of submarines is that they're not built to be waterproof at the surface. The various parts of the hull aren't welded shut and instead rely on the external pressure to press them shut at depth. Making them waterproof at the surface ends up making them less able to resist the pressure at depth.

So what do they do when they run on the surface?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#846

Post by davely »

solumunus wrote: post #828
bilekas wrote: post #796

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's wild how carbon fibre is a insanely powerful in it's application yet it's misused. I'd like to say it's caveat being as you mentioned but honestly, given then community in this field, even the technical diving alone. Someone must have said it to them. Thanks for some numbers, maybe tomorrow will play with the simulations to determine the AP's that could collapse the craft. The titanium hemispheres are probably t…

There is a video going around of the lead guy saying (obviously before this incident) something to the effect of “I will be remembered for innovation and the rules I broke, I was told not to build using such and such materials and I’ve proven people wrong”.

“I’ve broken some rules to make this, I think I’ve broken them with good logic and good engineering behind me. The carbon fiber and titanium, there’s a rule you don’t do that – well I did,” said the CEO in an interview in 2021. [1]

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD5SUDFE6CA&t=1446s&pp=2AGmC...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#847

Post by housemusicfan »

whatscooking wrote: post #839
mulmen wrote: post #829

The most troubling thing about this to me is Stockton Rush’s cavalier attitude toward ageism [1]. In considering young college graduates as uniquely “inspirational” he set them up for a lifetime of guilt. I don’t think age or race has any place in inspirational calculus. I’m uncomfortable with how comfortably he dismisses submariner veterans as “old white guys”. Engineering is a discipline that requires experience an…

Most old engineers I’ve worked with are terrible and many younger ones are way more talented.

This is the attitude you need to give birth to truly innovative ideas like a Bluetooth controller attached to the desktop PC that controlled his hunk of shit submarine that killed everyone on board.

He proudly describes it here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClkytJa0ghc

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#848

Post by watwut »

colechristensen wrote: post #772
carabiner wrote: post #708

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just fucking insane. In aerospace everyone knows that when a crack starts, IT'S OVER. Crack propagation is extremely rapid after that once nucleation has occurred. Your only hope is to prevent nucleation sites in the first place. Except it's extremely hard to characterize fatigue limits without tons of testing and even for metals there is wide variation for identical parts, not even getting into composites. Which of…

> when a crack starts, IT'S OVER. Crack propagation is extremely rapid after that once nucleation has occurred This is an exaggeration, small cracks can develop and grow very slowly over the course of years. There’s lots of types and sizes of cracks.

It depends on the material and external conditions.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#849

Post by WalterBright »

hodgesrm wrote: post #841
WalterBright wrote: post #722

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every one of them went against conventional wisdom and the laws of physics as they were known or suspected to be at the time. This is not true of the Wrights. Their first step was to gather together all the known aeronautical knowledge at the time. They relied on them, too, until they discovered the coefficient of lift was off by a factor of two. Then they built their own wind tunnel to determine the correct value.…

It's worth adding that they invented the first successful control system for an aircraft. [0] Personally I think that was the single most important step, because it enabled their aircraft (including test gliders) to fly safely. [0] https://www.wright-brothers.org/History_Wing/Wright_Story/In...

They had 6 major advances:

1. 3 axis control (as you mentioned)

2. first propeller theory

3. first lightweight aircraft engine

4. wind tunnel tested airfoils

5. solving adverse yaw problem

6. targeted research & development program

They needed all of them to fly. All modern aircraft can trace their designs back to the 1903 Wright Flyer, and none of the other contenders. It's a stunning achievement, and all at a cost of $1,500. (The Langley project cost $50,000 and solved none of the problems.)

In my not-so-humble opinion, the 1903 Wright Flyer is the start of the modern technological age.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#850

Post by watwut »

amatecha wrote: post #734
furyofantares wrote: post #556

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who isn't very reckless, if I'm ever in trouble I'd love if people would search for me without trying to debate exactly how reckless I was being. Then recoup what you can from me or my estate if you determine I was reckless after the fact, when you have plenty of time to evaluate the facts.

Ah, in fact, search & rescue organizations are pretty outspoken in their view that compensation is never sought from the people they rescue. It's a heavily-discussed topic and they are really steadfast in this view. Our provincial organization BC Search & Rescue Association actually published a series of videos on this subject, where they go into quite some detail about the rationale behind different arguments and wh…

When you need rescue in mountains, you pay. Full stop. If they deployed chopper, you pay full price of it too.

Obviously there is an insurance for mountain climbing. But search party is not free, just that insurance pays if you have it.

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