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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
551–560 of 1001 posts
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#552Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the average person here is probably a lot closer to taking a holiday trip in a submersible than to taking a refugee boat across the Mediterranean There is no way in hell I would pay $250k to board a janky-ass sub going deep into the ocean. For $250k, I could buy a nice house for me, my girlfriend and our future family. And even that is not possible yet. Because I don’t have that kind of money.
> For $250k, I could buy a nice house for me, my girlfriend and our future family. That's not even enough of down payment for a tear down where I live!
Relocate :D In the city I was born I don’t think there is room for a couple with kids anywhere near $250k. Probably I’d need $400k or more there for any kind of suitable housing. In the city where I rent currently, maybe just barely. But my hope is to scrape together enough savings and then buy a house or flat for us somewhere in the world where $250k or thereabouts would be sufficient.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#553Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yes I get the training aspect. My point was around charging them for this. There are other such rescue missions where our brave men and women risk their lives because of reckless behavior of some. We should at least have such reckless actors take a bigger burden where possible.
It's my understanding that in rescue missions where the targets don't pay with their lives, they end up paying monetarily afterwards.
Depends a great deal on who is doing the rescuing and whether the people rescued are considered negligent. Iceland's SAR team, for example, has gone back and forth on whether to charge people because when people believe they'll have to pay, they're less likely to call for help until the situation has gotten way worse and way more dangerous for the team.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#554A former US Navy submariner recently released a video about the Titan and the issues he could see with its design: https://youtube.com/watch?v=4dka29FSZac
He seems unaware that they made several trips to the Titanic in the sub already.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#555Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't understand why they didn't just drop it to the bottom of the ocean without people hundred times to see if it still holds. Who experiments with a crew in the age of remote control sensors and computers?
I think they just didn't think there hull design would implode. In there minds the worst case is, they're stuck in deep ocean for a few hours until the backup dissolvable weights fall off and they pop back up to the surface (and then hopefully located). From what I've read, in there minds there hull design was the best part of the sub. I inclined to believe he believed it, since the CEO frequently dove in it.
The hull was replaced because the previous one showed damage due to repeated stress cycling:
"This is shaping up as a rebuilding year for the nearly 11-year-old venture, based in Everett, Wash. The main task on the agenda is to build two new submersibles capable of diving as deep as 6,000 meters (3.7 miles), which is more than a mile deeper than the part of the North Atlantic ocean floor where the Titanic is resting.
OceanGate will take advantage of lessons learned during the construction of its carbon-hulled Titan submersible, which was originally built for Titanic journeys. Rush said tests that were conducted at the Deep Ocean Test Facility in Annapolis, Md., revealed that the Titan’s hull “showed signs of cyclic fatigue.” As a result, the hull’s depth rating was reduced to 3,000 meters.
“Not enough to get to the Titanic,” Rush said."
From:
https://www.geekwire.com/2020/oceangate-raises-18m-build-big...
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#556I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.
As someone who isn't very reckless, if I'm ever in trouble I'd love if people would search for me without trying to debate exactly how reckless I was being.
Then recoup what you can from me or my estate if you determine I was reckless after the fact, when you have plenty of time to evaluate the facts.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#557Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have any details about why it was a death trap? I watched one video that complained about off the shelf parts being used, but the two examples was an RV light (not safety related) and the gaming controller (which they had multiple back ups). They also claimed to have been reviewed by Boeing and University of Washington. There was 7 different mechanisms that could force a return. Some of those were purely mecha…
Using off the shelf components is probably the best thing they did. You don't want to reinvent the wheel if you can help it. I don't know why the game controller is a sticking point for most of social media. It's funny to think of a vehicle being piloted by one, but they really are designed to be used for thousands of hours. Game controllers have been used in all sorts of military applications. The issue as far as I…
The carbon fibre is interesting angle because I have seen in the last 5-10 years a change in fire fighters, under water rescue services and military to go from using steel cylinders for breathing gas (300 bar) to a composite of aluminum and carbon fibre with the same pressure of 300 bar. The benefit being targeted is the reduction in weight. Those tanks do get tested regularly but those tests might just be as pointless as in this case. If they explode they will do so with a shattering boom.
I wonder if this event will cause some changes, or if it is an expensive step in figuring out how to properly test this material.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#558Earlier quoted context omitted.
He's also on record as saying things like, " It's obscenely safe because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn't innovated or grown — because they have all these regulations. " ( https://www.insider.com/titan-submarine-ceo-complained-about... )
He seemed especially proud about combining titanium and carbon fibre against the advice of others, which seems to now have been in a pretty active role in the demise of the Titan. > "I'd like to be remembered as an innovator. I think it was General MacArthur who said "you're remembered for the rules you break." And I've broken some rules to make this. I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me…
I'm curious about this detail, and I have what is surely a very dumb question. Both titanium and carbon fiber are, afaik, known and used for their strength to weight ratio; so aerospace is a natural application. But in deep sea diving is weight a factor at all? Could one just build vehicles with, I don't know, a 30 cm thick steel plate?
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#559Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think the migrant boat disaster is horrible. But I was more interested in this missing sub because it was a bit mysterious what happened to it initially. Then it all comes out how badly built it is, how it's a death trap, etc. It's just more interesting personally. It doesn't mean it's worse than the migrant boat, it's just more interesting and I'd rather read about it. Mysterious cases always get more traction on…
Do you have any details about why it was a death trap? I watched one video that complained about off the shelf parts being used, but the two examples was an RV light (not safety related) and the gaming controller (which they had multiple back ups). They also claimed to have been reviewed by Boeing and University of Washington. There was 7 different mechanisms that could force a return. Some of those were purely mecha…
In addition to all of the specific examples already shared, the CEO boasted numerous times about flouting standard safety protocols and expert opinions.
These design flaws weren't an unfortunate mistake, they were part of a very deliberate pattern that went predictably wrong.
Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers
#560I wonder if U.S. agencies (e.g. the Navy) had picked up the sound of the implosion days ago, back when the Titan was said to have lost communication, and knew all this time that the Titan had likely already been destroyed. But there's no incentive for them to publicly say anything, as it would hint to their underwater surveillance capabilities. And the "rescue effort" is good practice for their crews. I watched most…
This was quite prescient of you. At first (hours before they confirmed the debris was from the sub), I thought your comment was a stretch, but still plausible- yet impossible to prove. All too often, we dismiss these conspiratorial hypotheses, but now that the WSJ all but confirms your suspicions, I’m scared to find out what other inconvenient truths there are to life