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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

571–580 of 1001 posts

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> than to taking a refugee boat across the Mediterranean. A migrants boat. Most of the people crossing the Med into Europe are economic migrants but in the past decade it has become known that claiming asylum on arrival (or at least if caught) is a good strategy so many do.

Interesting point, I wasn't aware of the distinction between economic migrant and refugee > Refugee immigrants are unable or unwilling to return home for fear or threat of prosecution, and thus, must make a life in the country that gives them refuge. Economic immigrants, on the other hand, are free from this constraint and can return home whenever they so desire.[1] But then further clarification of the term 'economi…

I am a bit puzzled by your comment.

A 'refugee' has a legal definition because this is a status that is created and governed by international treaties, which is what makes it interesting for migrants because in 'nice' countries like in Europe this means that they are protected from deportation while their claim to refugee status is processed, which can take a very long time. They are provided accomodation during that time.

All other migrants are simply people who migrate for whatever reason people move to other countries, which are mainly family and economic reasons. When people from poor countries want to move to rich countries the main reason is very obviously economic. All those migrants fall into normal national laws of the countries they move to, in general this means that if they enter without visas they face a form of arrest and deportation.

That's it. There is indeed in a clear dichotomy. The rest is purely a political/ideological point of view as to whether people have effectively a right to migrate vs. whether countries have a right to decide who to let in.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#572
post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any details about why it was a death trap? I watched one video that complained about off the shelf parts being used, but the two examples was an RV light (not safety related) and the gaming controller (which they had multiple back ups). They also claimed to have been reviewed by Boeing and University of Washington. There was 7 different mechanisms that could force a return. Some of those were purely mecha…

James Cameron had some insightful commentary on why the sub was intrinsically dangerous: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rThZLhNF_xg

Thanks for that link, I love the way James Cameron talks about it. He knows what he's talking about. The fact people were warned just points to complete gross negligence. Everyone knew it was a death trap. It's sad.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#573
post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

The same way we justify the significant resources devoted to the attempted rescues of the Thai boys in the cave and the Chilean miners.

Effective Altruists would point out buying several castles with stolen crypto money is more effective than this search and rescue because the castle vibes improve their work on raising more money and growing the community.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#574

Here are a couple of quotes I pulled from the USCG press release: > "debris is consistent with a catastrophic implosion of the vessel" > "1600 feet (487 meters) from the wreck of the Titanic" > "it is a smooth bottom", "there is no wreckage of the Titanic in the area" > "size of the debris field is consistent with an implosion in the water column" > "there doesn't seem to be any connection between the noises and the…

I'm really curious about the carbon fibre design, I'm not a material expert but I do dive and for tanks they work because of the internal pressure of tank.

The 'weaving' is supposed to be link connecting your two hands together interlocking fingers, in one direction you will meet a full resistance, but in the opposite direction your fingers will unlock.

I have no idea but seems to me if there is external pressure the weaving would have 'imploded' depending on the design I guess. Really want to know more about this.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#575
post #6

I wonder if U.S. agencies (e.g. the Navy) had picked up the sound of the implosion days ago, back when the Titan was said to have lost communication, and knew all this time that the Titan had likely already been destroyed. But there's no incentive for them to publicly say anything, as it would hint to their underwater surveillance capabilities. And the "rescue effort" is good practice for their crews. I watched most…

Top Secret U.S. Navy System Heard Titan Implosion Days Ago (wsj.com) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=36439661

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#576
post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's also on record as saying things like, " It's obscenely safe because they have all these regulations. But it also hasn't innovated or grown — because they have all these regulations. " ( https://www.insider.com/titan-submarine-ceo-complained-about... )

He seemed especially proud about combining titanium and carbon fibre against the advice of others, which seems to now have been in a pretty active role in the demise of the Titan. > "I'd like to be remembered as an innovator. I think it was General MacArthur who said "you're remembered for the rules you break." And I've broken some rules to make this. I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me…

And of course he used McArthur, of all the people, as a reference...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#577

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any particularl inside info on this other than what you’ve read in the news over the last couple of days? They’re pretty strong accusations you're making.

Here you go: https://web.archive.org/web/20230619161930/https://oceangate...

From the page you linked:

>Why Isn't Titan Classed?

[...]

>Classing assures ship owners, insurers, and regulators that vessels are designed, constructed and inspected to accepted standards. Classing may be effective at filtering out unsatisfactory designers and builders, but the established standards do little to weed out subpar vessel operators – because classing agencies only focus on validating the physical vessel.

[...]

> The vast majority of marine (and aviation) accidents are a result of operator error, not mechanical failure.

Did they not consider that the reason for this fact is, oh I don't know, maybe because the vessels have passed the checks for mechanical integrity?

You can't make this stuff up...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#578
post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

You now get to have a say in how someone else lives their life because you are held financially responsible for the consequences of their own actions. Aren’t government services wonderful?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#579
post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're in luck, the Mythbusters tried this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEY3fN4N3D8

... and that was like, a couple hundred feet. The Titanic is at 12,500 feet. An unfathomable amount of pressure.

12500 ft is 2083.33 fathoms.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#580
post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

The Navy gets to learn, perhaps make good use of the information learned in the future. They occasionally need to conduct rescue and other times recovery missions and this could help inform those missions in the future.
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