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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#491

Post by krisoft »

hawk_ wrote: post #407
krisoft wrote: post #389

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission Nobody asked me if I want to pay for it or not. So i don’t feel that the “we” is justified. But if they would have asked me i would have voted to not move a finger unless some private entity (the company or the families, or literally anyone who wants to) pays for it. They went out of their way to do so…

Yes well you're paying through your taxes at least (assuming you are a tax resident in the jurisdictions involved)

I understand. I’m not doubting that. What I’m saying is that I don’t need to justify anything. The people who have control over spending the money or not need to justify it. And since that is a very small set of people I don’t feel it is fair to ask how “we “ justify it.

But even in a hypothetical where the government sent out a snap poll saying “Sup citizen. 5 fellas lost in a sub. Need $140m for rescue attempt. Send yay or nay.” I would have responded with “nay”. So even in that hypothetical I wouldn’t feel I need to justify why we should spend money to rescue these people. (By the by, this hypothetical sounds crazy, but we could totally have this kind of direct say in matters. We have the tech for it.)

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#492

Post by [deleted] »

deanc wrote: post #305
lamontcg wrote: post #58

Well that's better than slowly asphyxiating or dying of hypothermia, probably didn't even know what hit them.

Can someone walk me through what would have happened, physically, to a human body in the moment this happened. I’m curious. Similar to wondering what happens to people in space.

[deleted]

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#493

Post by mirko22 »

bambax wrote: post #471
Hamuko wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He seemed especially proud about combining titanium and carbon fibre against the advice of others, which seems to now have been in a pretty active role in the demise of the Titan. > "I'd like to be remembered as an innovator. I think it was General MacArthur who said "you're remembered for the rules you break." And I've broken some rules to make this. I think I've broken them with logic and good engineering behind me…

James Cameron is extremely critical of the design of the sub, and of Rush's attitude [0]. He says that carbon fiber was a very poor choice and that it had been known for a very long time, and that "deep submerged diving is a mature art". If you think you're going to reinvent the wheel and bypass regulatory bodies and ignore subject experts, and move fast and break things, you're delusional. Any baby can break things;…

I suppose it is easier to move fast and break things when all you need to do is post pictures of cats, but diving to 4km depth you only get to break once I’m afraid

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#494

Post by [deleted] »

helios_invictus wrote: post #285
btgeekboy wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Part of me has been wondering if the noises being heard might be an unexpected discovery of a military (Russian, Chinese, US) submarine operating in the general area. Don’t they submerge for long periods of time without comms?

They do, but not the depths we're talking about (12,500 feet) https://navalpost.com/how-deep-can-a-submarine-dive/ The depth limits of the most known nuclear powered submarines’ depth limits, as follows; Typhoon-class: Test depth 900 m (3,000 ft) Astute-class: Over 300 m (984 ft 3 in) Akula-class: 480 m (1,570 ft) test depth for Akula I and Akula I Improved, 520 m (1,710 ft) for Akula II and III, 600 m (2,000 ft) max…

[deleted]

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#495

Post by carabiner »

bambax wrote: post #425
seattle_anon wrote: post #166

Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…

Good video. Some excerpts: "If you're not breaking things, you're not innovating. If you're operating in a known environment as most submersible manufacturers do, they don't break things." (8:49) "Our rule is we risk capital, we don't risk people." (9:56) "We used the same prepreg that's used on the 787." (11:15) And my favorite: "When you're outside the box, it's really hard to tell how far outside the box you reall…

> It's a strong indication of bullshit -- name dropping that doesn't have anything to do with the subject matter

It means you're using a material that's been vetted over decades in life-critical applications in harsh conditions by expert engineers all over the world. Aerospace aluminums today are derived from Japanese alloys invented in WW2 and were a major innovation in metal aircraft. It's much more expensive than steel, but we use it because of favorable characteristics. Here's an overview of different aluminums and where they're used: https://www.aircraftaluminium.com/blog

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#496

Post by cpeterso »

beowulfey wrote: post #331
FinnG wrote: post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My guess would be that the Oceangate ship ignores everything that it's not 'expecting' to hear. I don't really know anything about deep sea exploration, but having general purpose microphones in the water seems like a bit of an oversight to me, given the marginal cost of having them.

So many things about this venture were not really considered. I am terrified that this guy was an aerospace engineer. It feels like he threw the book about engineering safety out the window. The big one is designing the sub to travel to 95% of the expected maximum depth, leaving a 5% margin of safety. I was taught to aim for a margin of safety of (I think it was) 50% back in the day. Operating so close to the safe li…

> The big one is designing the sub to travel to 95% of the expected maximum depth, leaving a 5% margin of safety.

Wouldn't a a 5% margin of safety mean the sub was designed to survive at 105% of the trip's expected maximum depth? 95% sounds like the opposite of a margin of safety.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#497

Post by BoxOfRain »

rozal wrote: post #410
deanc wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone walk me through what would have happened, physically, to a human body in the moment this happened. I’m curious. Similar to wondering what happens to people in space.

[flagged]

It's poor form to post ChatGPT especially when it's incorrect.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#498

Post by aurizon »

rootusrootus wrote: post #222
aurizon wrote: post #115

The most likely first failure is the window. At that instant a rapid turbulent fill event would occur. The outside pressure and the hole diameter will provide a calculable interval for the internal volume to fill. At 12,000 feet = 800 atmospheres, this would be on the order of 1/20th of a second, with intense crush/shear forces = instant death as perceived. That interval can be related to the speed of sound and wavel…

> 800 atmospheres A bit under 400 atmospheres at the depth of the Titanic. But I don't think that meaningfully changes your conclusion. It's instant.

Yes, I made a 2x error in my mental math, and the edit window had closed by the time I saw it.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#499

Post by krisoft »

js8 wrote: post #270
hawk_ wrote: post #206

I am curious how we (the society) justify the shared costs incurred in searching for people involved in such a reckless mission.

Forgiveness. We frequently forgive stupid a5es, and adopt regulations to prevent other a5es causing too much damage. It was Jesus' message, after all.

You can easily find 10 people in any metropolis who are down on their luck. Spending the equivalent amount of resources on those 10 people you could achieve a lasting positive impact on their lives. Why not spend the money on those 10 people? Did Jesus teach us that a5es in submarines are more valuable than a5es in an ER or sleeping in an underpass?
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