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Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

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Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#61

Post by dmix »

Denvercoder9 wrote: post #33
Natsu wrote: post #9

Well, this explains a lot... they didn't have a window rated for the right depth and weren't really testing whether the hull was de-laminating according to the whistleblower, so we have a few guesses as to why the sub would just implode. The lack of contact would be because nobody was alive to contact, which is honestly better, at least they had a quick death instead of slow suffocation. And the banging noises are pr…

> And the banging noises are probably either the sub imploding or from debris falling to the ocean floor. Or something else entirely. There's a surprising amount of unexplained noise picked up from the ocean.

Coast guard people said the noises were unrelated

Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#62

Post by sho_hn »

rightbyte wrote: post #45
saberdancer wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their bodies are also pressurized at 1 atms, after being exposed to 400 atms they instantly died. My guess is that they were effectively vaporized/liquified. Much better way to go then suffocate in darkness.

Why are people assuming this? How about a leak that fills the sub with water? Is a leak impossible to keep stable at those depths?

> Why are people assuming this? How about a leak that fills the sub with water? Is a leak impossible to keep stable at those depths?

Part of this is the use of carbon fibre, which is a very brittle material. In bike frame failures, for example, carbon fibre doesn't tend to rip a little or bend, it often fractures greatly or even shatters.

Add the enormous pressure difference, and this is why most people assume instant catastrophic failure.

Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#63

Post by f38zf5vdt »

saberdancer wrote: post #18
TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #13

If the sub imploded shortly after reaching the titanic, how exactly did the people on board die? Was it an instant pressurized death? Do they drown or something?

Their bodies are also pressurized at 1 atms, after being exposed to 400 atms they instantly died. My guess is that they were effectively vaporized/liquified. Much better way to go then suffocate in darkness.

Probably combusted? At 400 atms their biomass would compress into a gelatinous hydrocarbon fat blob with the oxygen present, resulting in automatic combustion. The amount of compression their bodies would experience is an order of magnitude greater than a diesel engine cylinder. The explosion would immediately be quenched by the surrounding water and the only thing remaining of the occupants would be ash.

This would happen on the order of milliseconds.

Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#64

Post by jacquesm »

SV_BubbleTime wrote: post #56
jonah wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the press-conference they said both end bells were found separately - no mention of whether the window was still intact. It'll be interesting to see the failure analysis. [Edit] Link to video with a description of the major debris found: https://youtu.be/A0xJ220Fod4?t=263 "the front end-bell of the pressure hull - that was the first indication that there was a catastrophic event" "the aft end-bell which basically.…

Sounds like if the bells were found, but not the tube, we have the answer. If the window failed, I would expect to have none or one bell separated from the tube, but not both. I imagine the glass being shot inside the tube and the water jet would vaporize the people inside and maybe blow one bell off. If the tube failed, would expect both bells to be sitting on the ocean floor. I’m not a professional mechanical engin…

Pretty good guess though.

Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#65

Post by throwanem »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #29
nickff wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did Oceangate or its founder(s) say they intended to 'move fast and break things', or are you just imputing that they held those beliefs? The company purported to "maintain[] high-level operational safety".

> Metro reports that last year, when asked about the safety of the Titan submersible, Stockton Rush, OceanGate’s CEO, said, “You know, there’s a limit. At some point safety just is pure waste. I mean if you just want to be safe, don’t get out of bed. Don’t get in your car. Don’t do anything. At some point, you’re going to take some risk, and it really is a risk/reward question. I think I can do this just as safely by…

I believe the kids call this "finding out." Or, as Feynman once put it: "For a successful technology, reality must take precedence over public relations, for nature cannot be fooled."

Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#66

Post by ceejayoz »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #60
ceejayoz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a good guess. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byford_Dolphin > Investigation by forensic pathologists determined that Hellevik, being exposed to the highest pressure gradient and in the process of moving to secure the inner door, was forced through the crescent-shaped opening measuring 60 centimetres (24 in) long created by the jammed interior trunk door. With the escaping air and pressure, it included bisection o…

That wiki page describes a decompression injury, which AFAIU is the opposite of implosion: > This resulted in the chamber being explosively decompressed from a pressure of nine atmospheres to the one atmosphere of the unsealed chamber system. Whereas an analogous description of the submarine implosion would describe the opposite, i.e. "explosively compressed from a pressure of one atmosphere to 400 atmospheres."

The point is the extreme, rapid force involved.

Imploding or exploding, nine atmospheres is gonna suck. 400 atmospheres is... like standing under a nuclear bomb. The good news is it doesn't hurt, at all.

Someone else on the thread posted a video of a one atmosphere implosion (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zz95_VvTxZM). 400x the pressure here.

Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#67

Post by routerl »

InCityDreams wrote: post #52

Does this qualify for a Darwin award?

Yesterday, people involved with the Darwin awards were saying "let's wait 24 hours".

For the pilot and co-founder, yes, he deserves the award. For the passengers, I predict lawsuits. But apparently the contract included a clause about accidental death.

The guy who brought his son also probably deserves a Darwin award.

Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#68

Post by lazide »

jacquesm wrote: post #40
N19PEDL2 wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't break the rules of physics.

Well, it worked, a few times. The problem isn't so much the rules of physics it is the materials science underpinned by those rules of physics. This particular material for a hull is in my opinion a mis-application if you plan on using it repeatedly or for carrying people.

Carbon fiber is notorious for sudden unexpected failures due to invisible cracking inside it after it gets loaded too much. Definitely a bad material choice. Even steel can form stress fractures under those kinds of pressures,

Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#69

Post by duncan-donuts »

alangibson wrote: post #36
TheCaptain4815 wrote: post #13

If the sub imploded shortly after reaching the titanic, how exactly did the people on board die? Was it an instant pressurized death? Do they drown or something?

Pressure at that depth is about 5800 psi. Imagine 3 ton, 1 cubic inch cubes being dropped on every square inch of your body from every side all at once and you'll have your answer.

Yeah but the pressure equalization happens so fast you’d almost certainly feel nothing.

Re: Oceangate Statement, “We now believe that [all crew] have sadly been lost.”

#70

Post by dmix »

paulddraper wrote: post #7
downWidOutaFite wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"catastrophic loss of the pressure chamber" is a much better way to die than slowly running out of air in a super cramped container with a bunch of people.

It could have been the latter, followed by the former.

They said the sonar buoys would have heard the explosion so it likely happened during the initial dive
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