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Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

bbc.com

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Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#181

Post by x3874 »

kyleblarson wrote: post #108
typeofhuman wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a shame they openly did not hire SMEs.

This quote shines light on his hiring philosophy: “When I started the business, one of the things you’ll find, there are other sub-operators out there, but they typically have, uh, gentlemen who are ex-military submariners, and they — you’ll see a whole bunch of 50-year-old white guys,” Rush told Teledyne Marine in a resurfaced interview. “I wanted our team to be younger, to be inspirational and I’m not going to insp…

Wow, could be a Musk quote. Same vibes of 'break things fast'.

EDIT: "Hide yo kids, hide yo wife; the karma snatching Tesla fanbois are rife"

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#182

Post by dTal »

RajT88 wrote: post #34
danso wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's little other explanation for why contact would be abruptly lost. The company said that the sub has multiple forms of ballast, including systems that could be activated manually, and ties that were designed to dissolve after 20+ hours in seawater, allowing the sub to rise even if the crew were unconscious. > The latter is more probable to me as it has never been tested under water for more than a few hours at…

> There's little other explanation for why contact would be abruptly lost. You'd think - but past passengers have said that when they dove they lost contact as well. Mutiple trip passengers said they lost contact every time. So multiple anecdotes of loss of contact with the same vehicle without an implosion. The jankiness of this operation continues to be discovered bit by bit. ETA: https://abcnews.go.com/US/former-t…

In addition, note that despite losing contact while the sub was on its way down, they did not report it missing until it was overdue after the full mission length.

That indicates a certain blase, routine attitude to communication loss.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#183

Post by wiz21c »

ewoodrich wrote: post #86
mikeyouse wrote: post #38

It's not clear from the headline - but the debris field is on the ocean floor and was found via the USGC's remote operated submersible vehicle.

Yes on the sea floor but according to BBC: > Debris patch was found by an ROV from the Horizon Arctic, a Canadian commercial vessel which arrived last night near the Titanic wreckage site. > It was loaded with support equipment and was also carrying an Odysseus 6k ROV that can reach depths of 6,000m. https://www.bbc.com/news/live/world-us-canada-65967464?at_bb...

"Deepest condolences offered to families - US Coast Guard"

kind of funny pun...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#184

Post by bell-cot »

CoastalCoder wrote: post #39
buggythebug wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya but even so they could have sent rescue ships there because "we think it could be here" - nothing given up.

I could imagine a cost-benefit analysis making sense here. - Pro: increased chance of saving a few people's lives - Con: risk of leaking info about U.S. sonar sensitivity I.e., the decision would depend on the magnitude of the "pro" and "con" probabilities.

Audible-at-a-distance implosion ==>> Everyone inside is ~liquified

The actual Pro would be "minor calibration opportunity for our secret sensor network".

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#185

Post by stonogo »

seattle_anon wrote: post #166

Stockton Rush (OceanGate's CEO) was known in the Seattle tech community [0] My understanding (very much not first hand) is that he was seen as an expert in the specific engineering disciplines necessary to safely build and operate deep sea submersibles like Titan. He was also apparently a father to members of the Seattle tech community, who are no doubt grieving at the moment. Please remember that, for some members o…

He was not recognized as an expert by other deep-sea submerisble experts. He was repeatedly warned about safety issue with this design. These events are tragic, but they were predictable and avoidable and that makes it frustrating.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#186

Post by vanattab »

dylan604 wrote: post #51
psychphysic wrote: post #36

RIP to these guys, yes it was a risky trip. But it was into international waters and they were AFAIC explorers. Stuff like this can not be done without risk. Hopefully future subs will have more safety features.

I might feel this way to the first people to land on Mars or something. This was not a "mission" to advance human knowledge. To me, it's one step away from "hold my beer"

I don't think this is fair to say. The sub hull was built by NASA's Marshall Space Flight Center as part of a program to help commercial companies develop technologies that could be used for space exploration.

Just in our solar system, we have found evidence of oceans on Saturn’s moons Titan and Enceladus; Jupiter’s moons Europa, Ganymede, and Callisto; Neptune’s moon Triton; and on Pluto.

If we want to explore these oceans we will need to understand how to build lightweight subs that can tolerate extream pressures.

This tragedy will help humanity explore the solar system. I for one salute the explorers who died they have helped push us all forward.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#187

Post by Certhas »

It is notable how much news-coverage this received (for understandable reasons [1]) relative to the almost simultaneous disaster in the Mediterranean [2], where a shipwreck killed hundreds of people.

[1] What springs to mind: Dramatic search action well suited for live blog coverage; psychological impact of the idea of people stranded in a submarine for days; And of course the average person here is probably a lot closer to taking a holiday trip in a submersible than to taking a refugee boat across the Mediterranean.

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2023_Messenia_migrant_boat_dis...

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#188

Post by moneywoes »

carlosdp wrote: post #16
ak_111 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it more likely that it immediately imploded rather than after a few days? The latter is more probable to me as it has never been tested under water for more than a few hours at a stretch. This will also be consistent with your banging hypothesis which was only heard after a day or two when it got lost. And also with the fact that no immediate sound disturbance was registered with the controlling ship. I of cou…

The sub had 7 redundant ways to surface (drop weights / ballast), several of which work without power, and one of which triggers automatically after ~20 hrs of exposure to seawater. The only way it wouldn't have already surfaced on day 1 is if it got stuck on something ( and lost power, unlikely), or it imploded.

What I don’t get is what factors could have caused it to implode now when it didn’t previously?

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#189

Post by ak_111 »

cpleppert wrote: post #160
ak_111 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it more likely that it immediately imploded rather than after a few days? The latter is more probable to me as it has never been tested under water for more than a few hours at a stretch. This will also be consistent with your banging hypothesis which was only heard after a day or two when it got lost. And also with the fact that no immediate sound disturbance was registered with the controlling ship. I of cou…

Immediate implosion if a far more likely explanation because give that we knew it imploded the most likely time would be immediately after the pressure vessel reached maximum or near maximum stress and it failed. The time actually is not the biggest factor; it is the number of cycles the pressure vessel has endured. An implosion after a relatively low number of cycles is consistent with past incidents with pressuriza…

The most puzzling aspect, from what I understand from the experts, if it imploded at time and depth you are suggesting it would have been very likely to be registered by at least the controlling ship due to the noise. As you highlighted the sub is pretty large, imploding in a millisecond causes huge effects in the surroundings.

So saying it got lost and imploded after a few days solves two problems. Explains why there was no implosion noise originally, and that the banging heard afterwards was the implosion. Also it has a history of losing contact in its previous tours.

Re: Debris found came from missing Titan sub, says friend of passengers

#190

Post by SirMaster »

EA-3167 wrote: post #7
ak_111 wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why is it more likely that it immediately imploded rather than after a few days? The latter is more probable to me as it has never been tested under water for more than a few hours at a stretch. This will also be consistent with your banging hypothesis which was only heard after a day or two when it got lost. And also with the fact that no immediate sound disturbance was registered with the controlling ship. I of cou…

"It imploded right away" explains everything. "It imploded later" requires at least two failures, first of power/comms, and THEN of the structure itself. Occam's Razor

How does it explain why the support boat heard no implosion while listening for the 15 min pings?

Wouldn't an implosion be really loud?

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