Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

phoronix.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

171–180 of 387 posts

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#171

Post by LexiMax »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #126
LexiMax wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you asking if a set of rules used to outline acceptable conduct in project participation has ever been enforced in good faith? Because they have, and I guarantee you that you've been aware of such enforcement actions in the past.

I think it's a good case of visibility; nobody hears about the justified enforcement of a code of conduct, but the odd cases (like the Drupal dev, or Donglegate, or what have you) get tons of media attention and are used as references as to why codes of conduct are a bad thing.

Exactly. I don't keep a mental checklist in my head of every time someone has ever gotten kicked out of a project's social spaces for being a jerk, it's just a thing that happens and everybody moves on with their life.

And it's not like I don't understand the baseline fear of bad-faith actors - I've been on the receiving end of a few myself, as have most of us. However, those fears never really led anywhere productive. What _was_ productive was going off on my own and building new things with people I actually enjoyed being around.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#172

Post by Cthulhu_ »

ajsnigrutin wrote: post #22
lionkor wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lead the moderation team for BeamMP (beammp.com, 150k+ User Discord) for a few months, and been part of it for much longer, and the two most positive changes I've seen are: - Regular meetings to keep everyone on-track (as nobody is being paid, its a passion project, etc) - Setting up clear rules and moderation guidelines, together. The team sat together and came up with a list of do's and don't's, best practices…

Do you just moderate stuff that happens on the discord, or do you ban people if they do some "wrong" stuff outside of discord? Because the CoC draft allows excluding people for doing "wrong" stuff even outside of GCC (-trackers, -mailing lists, etc.). There's a difference for baning people in places where they should behave professionally, and banning people for stuff they do outside of those places.

It depends, I think, on whether those people represent and reflect on the GCC organization; does the project want to be associated with morally objectionable people?

With other environments like forums, or even single commits or issues opened, I think it shouldn't apply; they're just randos, often even anonymous.

But with some projects, where for legal reasons people's real names & identities have to be exposed, it becomes another matter.

For what it's worth, I dislike real identities on the internet; I think e.g. open source projects should allow contributions from randoms / nicknames. But I guess there's legal issues.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#173

Post by dmm »

LexiMax wrote: post #112
dmm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The trouble is that attempting to learn from the lessons of past licenses tends to draw a lot of dogmatic outrage because said licenses either don't conform to the open source definition or four freedoms - or at least, not in the opinion of the OSI or FSF. They generate outrage because they are accompanied by people trying to change the definition of open-source, not with the idea of alternative licenses.

> They generate outrage because they are accompanied by people trying to change the definition of open-source If the precondition of learning lessons from past licenses is that they must follow the rules set by those past licenses as holy writ, then it follows that organizations like the FSF with leaders like RMS are the best you can hope for. Personally, I think we as a community of developers are capable of better.

Open Source is a term invented in 1998 a direct alternative to Free Software which is the term used by RMS/FSF. Bringing up RMS is irrelevant. If you want to promote licenses which don't meet the definition of FOSS, that's fine! Just call it something else. Here are some ideas:

    - Shared Source
    - Clear Source
    - Awesome Source
    - Friendly Source
    - Just Source

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#174

Post by darkwater »

nkuttler wrote: post #155
woodruffw wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you provide more details? I’ve been working on open source projects for about a decade now, including years of professional work, and I have never seen or heard someone chastised for using “guys” informally. This includes in communities with established, formal codes of conduct. It strikes me as something that most people wouldn’t even notice , unless the speaker was intentionally using it in a way that implies g…

I'm not sure what kind of details you're looking for?

> The only effect of a Code of Conduct I have ever personally witnessed was that people were being bullied for greeting others.

They probably means you should name the opensource project that "bullied (people) for greeting others".

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#175

Post by Cthulhu_ »

lopkeny12ko wrote: post #99

I must be missing something very obvious here. Why does my C compiler need a code of conduct?

Your C compiler is the result of a committee of hundreds, if not thousands of people; every line of code used is the result of collaboration, with the actual line of code being an implementation detail.

You can't have a product like this without its community, and you can't have a community without rules.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#176

Post by ozr »

hospitalJail wrote: post #68
mbStavola wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you know the silent majority aren't in favor of CoCs?

Yep, people act like they want to treat everyone's work independent until some personal event comes up. I had to get attacked for a joke I put on social media before I realized how insane CoCs on voluntary work are.

I don't mean to pick on you personally, but this is another time on this very same post where I've seen this expressed:

> I was indifferent/supportive of CoCs until it was used against me over some trivial thing

How can we avoid needing to get to that point?

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#177

Post by Steltek »

Kye wrote: post #27
not_your_vase wrote: post #2

Has there been any project which had its community change its conduct after adopting a CoC? Or any projects which had a profound impact due a CoC? I see that having CoC is getting standard with OSS projects, old and new alike. But have no idea if it actually does anything.

A Code of Conduct is like a contract. It formalizes norms and expectations so everyone is bound by the agreement on what to do when things go wrong. If you need one to set that culture, something's already wrong, and a contract/CoC won't help you.

However if you wait for things to go wrong, determining what your code of conduct _should have been_ will be done in the heat of the moment, which is a far more dangerous place to be.

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#178

Post by logicprog »

VancouverMan wrote: post #100
Akronymus wrote: post #32

Overall it seems like a pretty decent CoC. Altough, I am REALLY not a fan of this line: "In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect a person's ability to participate within them." I fear that that stipulation will be used to try and kick out people for holding "bad" opinions outside of the project. Like what was tried with Elia Schito.

Enforcement of this code of conduct would seem to inherently put the enforcers in violation of the Code. The Code states, " Harassment and other exclusionary behavior aren't acceptable. " Yet, targeting specific individuals with exclusion seems to be the main method of enforcement. As you indicated, the linked-to page recommends exclusion be used: " In addition, violations of this code outside these spaces may affect…

[flagged]

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#179

Post by ozr »

kelnos wrote: post #10
JonChesterfield wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair warning, I do not like codes of conduct. They're an authoritarian power play justified by fear. Codes of conduct are more about changing who is in the community than about changing the conduct of existing community members. Periodically someone runs afoul of the ruling elite who pass judgement upon them behind closed doors, usually leading to excommunication. The atmosphere of knowing what you say will be report…

> One guy says "the first example deadlocks", and that makes someone feel uncomfortable, properly fixed by kicking him out of the conference. Oh, please. That's just unfounded FUD-spreading.

[flagged]

Re: GCC Adopts a Code of Conduct

#180

Post by ozr »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #175
lopkeny12ko wrote: post #99

I must be missing something very obvious here. Why does my C compiler need a code of conduct?

Your C compiler is the result of a committee of hundreds, if not thousands of people; every line of code used is the result of collaboration, with the actual line of code being an implementation detail. You can't have a product like this without its community, and you can't have a community without rules.

So prior to today, GCC didn't exist?
Post reply on HN