Lost me at building a custom CMS for the MVP, or did I misunderstand?
What other off the self solutions you'd recommend for such a news website?
Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
71–80 of 222 posts
Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
#72> After several meetings, we came to the conclusion that the best approach was to simply halt the old website development and build a new one from scratch using the best technologies and practices.
Spoken like a true developer. Trash the old system, reinvent the wheel, prioritize the delight of the devs, leave the client with something that is totally obsolete and nobody else knows how to work on in a couple of years.
If that's not contract development in a nutshell I don't know what is.
Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
#73I have used both SvelteKit and React. Dev velocity was great in the beginning with SvelteKit when everything was super simple but decreased drastically as the project grew. Went back to Next. Apart from devs, none really cares if you wrote it in Svelte, React or bare HTML/CSS or if your site loads double digit milliseconds slower.
Could you please give a heads up what makes Seveltkit difficult in a larger code base?
Personally, I really missed the larger state management libraries that are well-available for react.
Layouts, passing difficult props to components, passing state up and down in the tree (i.e. refs)
Feels like SvelteKit has a major - just use whatever SvelteKit offers, which is generally enough for smaller projects.
Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
#74As the author states, ... Svelte Stores are rough. Beyond just missing usage patterns and documentation, we found that several features are lacking, especially when used with native reactivity (`$:`). Another area lacking is TypeScript support. Our frontend codebase at OKcontract is implemented with Svelte, but we had to build some low-level libraries (including a wholly new implementation of Stores) to make it worth…
I find this a bit confusing, because stores are one of Svelte's answers to react's state, and React's state is a hot mess once you go beyond component-local state
React state is a hot mess, yes!
We kept the same interface as the Svelte store, but with different semantics:
- special management of undefined values
- error management
- promise managementRe: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
#75I have used both SvelteKit and React. Dev velocity was great in the beginning with SvelteKit when everything was super simple but decreased drastically as the project grew. Went back to Next. Apart from devs, none really cares if you wrote it in Svelte, React or bare HTML/CSS or if your site loads double digit milliseconds slower.
Could you please give a heads up what makes Seveltkit difficult in a larger code base?
I have tried to use sveltekit once and turned around in 20 minutes as routing is severely limited. All I wanted to do was to route based on domain, with a different set of routes for one of the domains. Not exactly complicated or uncommon, but not something you can do with the sveltekit router.
Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's the second, younger generation of devs who are realizing that "complexity kills". Those of us who started in 2000's have already seen this. It's a natural cycle. We are seeing a spring-back to monoliths and away from micro-services and crazy tooling chains. It was completely unnecessary, and most importantly, cost the industry a fortune. If you are older, you have been wondering why you need to work more to achi…
I think technology choices should be made depending on the team. If you have 5 teams with 10 people each, then it is a great idea if your service is comprised of 5 microservices that talk to each other across team borders through well defined APIs. If it takes you 3 days to run your microservice locally, then you somehow didn't set up your development environment when you should have.
> then you somehow didn't set up your development environment when you should have.
This is great! ...in theory. But why do so many teams seem to have these kinds of problems? I think we have to come into these conversations with an over abundance of good faith that people are trying their best. Something in this microservice architecture conversation of the past decade isn't working as elegantly for a huge portion of the devshops that try it.
People should do lots of things, but that doesn't mean they always get done. There is merit to the argument that you may do things in a simpler way and adopt a different approach to cross team communication and complexity management. Your final sentence reads as a moral judgement equivalent to "your doing it wrong" without offering a solution.
We've had a decade of telling people they're doing it wrong and it's still being done with the same problems over and over and over again.
Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
#77I never built a web app in my life. I have always been on the server side. Recently I spent a couple days building the same web app in Next, Nuxt, and SvelteKit just to get a feel of how to build a web app today. The web app was pretty basic. A couple of pages showing data from different apis and auth with user setting page. My favorite by far was SvelteKit despite being the one with the smaller community. It was act…
> I never built a web app in my life.
> I would highly suggest people to try SvelteKit.
I feel like this is a good summary of tech trends these days.
Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
#78I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…
It's the second, younger generation of devs who are realizing that "complexity kills". Those of us who started in 2000's have already seen this. It's a natural cycle. We are seeing a spring-back to monoliths and away from micro-services and crazy tooling chains. It was completely unnecessary, and most importantly, cost the industry a fortune. If you are older, you have been wondering why you need to work more to achi…
> it takes 3 days to set up your microservices locally
Why do you need all microservices locally? Why wouldn't you set up just the relevant one, and proxy the traffic to the rest of the services already deployed? Or, failing that, why don't you have a docker-compose file that has already pre-configured your services to run locally?
Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
#79> Reactive declarations and statements feel like powerful magic, and they are, but it’s very easy to hurt yourself by writing code that is almost impossible to debug, That's interesting, because one thing I'd discovered in Svelte, which I didn't even dream of seeing ever again was a legible stack trace. It literally goes all the way down to the very change that caused all the mayhem. > Svelte’s lack of protagonism I…
Full stack dev going on a decade here. Stack traces and errors in React are pretty awful, fully agree there.
I've never even thought about the social aspect of being a react dev - is there one? Frontend sure, but react specifically? It's just a tool, nothing to get ideological or bent out of shape over.
Couldn't give a shit what Abramov says beyond what is useful in my day-to-day. There are probably a lot of junior devs who are starstruck but I've never seen any hint of ostracization (lol). There are tons of junior web devs (and more everyday) though so I can understand how one could form that perception.
Yes to less celebrities and more problem solving.
Hooks are fantastic and so much more composable than the class methods. I use 100% hooks and functional components in my code nowadays and it has never been easier to build and understand my UIs - especially those with non-trivial logic and state. Never had a problem with them being "simple on the surface" but ymmv I guess.
Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
He said that he couldn't have met the deadline without Svelte.
Of course it could have been done without Svelte. Thats the only stack their team know and/or wanted to work with. Nothing wrong with that, but would be nice if they were more upfront about that instead of "impossible for a different solution to exist". There was a psychological term for it, making a decision first and only then finding supportive arguments in favour of the decision?
He’s worked with React and Svelte. He didn’t think he could get it done in time with React. How do you know he is wrong?