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Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

claudioholanda.ch

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Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#61

Post by Tade0 »

> Reactive declarations and statements feel like powerful magic, and they are, but it’s very easy to hurt yourself by writing code that is almost impossible to debug,

That's interesting, because one thing I'd discovered in Svelte, which I didn't even dream of seeing ever again was a legible stack trace. It literally goes all the way down to the very change that caused all the mayhem.

> Svelte’s lack of protagonism

I see this as a good thing. My main gripe with React isn't even its design(which I also dislike, but acknowledge the fact that the market decided on a solution), but the social aspect of being a React developer. You have to accept everything Dan Abramov says as gospel, or else you'll be ostracized.

The frontend space would use less celebrities and more focused problem solving.

I remember when hooks came out - everyone jumped on the bandwagon and started rewriting normal, working components to this new paradigm. Net effect of course was unpredictable performance, because hooks are only simple on the surface.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#62

Post by npsomaratna »

sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

This reflects my experience from the 00's onwards. Survived and avoided most of these—except the nosql bandwagon. A worn out and wiser man, ended up switching back to relational DBs several years later.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#63

Post by danjac »

tarkin2 wrote: post #58
lewhoo wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately it takes time and experience to filter out the hype and marketing but hype and marketing usually acts against good experience. I thought something is wrong with me when a thought came to mind that (early) no-sql really really could use relations. People said I'm silly for trying to make no-sql sql-like.

> it takes time and experience to filter out the hype and marketing When you have that experience, you subsequently apply for jobs that demand you be up-to-your-elbows in the over-hyped and over-marketed tech. The industry, eagerly lapping up any and all shiny-marketing and advocacy, financially incentivises bandwagon-jumping over listening to experience.

I think (or rather, hope) that this is a symptom of the low interest-rate era, and companies may be less willing to waste money and development cycles on chasing the latest shiny.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#64

Post by Gasp0de »

papito wrote: post #47
sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

It's the second, younger generation of devs who are realizing that "complexity kills". Those of us who started in 2000's have already seen this. It's a natural cycle. We are seeing a spring-back to monoliths and away from micro-services and crazy tooling chains. It was completely unnecessary, and most importantly, cost the industry a fortune. If you are older, you have been wondering why you need to work more to achi…

I think technology choices should be made depending on the team. If you have 5 teams with 10 people each, then it is a great idea if your service is comprised of 5 microservices that talk to each other across team borders through well defined APIs. If it takes you 3 days to run your microservice locally, then you somehow didn't set up your development environment when you should have.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#65

Post by fortunateregard »

renatofontes wrote: post #51
cetra3 wrote: post #7

I've moved my little hobby website to SvelteKit[1] from react and I am not regretting it.. yet. The only main frustrations I have are: - Library support is pretty lousy. You need to fudge things around to get working. I.e, with leaflet and others I have vendored in the libs and redone them. - Incremental static refresh with svelte kit is not really there. I'd like a web hook or api callback that allows me to refresh…

Haven't had that refresh issue because I don't use that. But I'm 100% with you on the routing. It's weird. One thing I had a lot of trouble was with "sub routing", like being in a route, opening a modal and having the url change so it can be linked to. I had to implement some ugly workaround in the layout to catch hasthag # navigation.

Rich Harris demo'd an upcoming "shallow routing" feature a few weeks ago: https://youtu.be/HdkJTOTY-Js?t=419

around the 7:00 min mark

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#66

Post by zygo »

I have used both SvelteKit and React. Dev velocity was great in the beginning with SvelteKit when everything was super simple but decreased drastically as the project grew. Went back to Next. Apart from devs, none really cares if you wrote it in Svelte, React or bare HTML/CSS or if your site loads double digit milliseconds slower.

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#67

Post by wg0 »

zygo wrote: post #66

I have used both SvelteKit and React. Dev velocity was great in the beginning with SvelteKit when everything was super simple but decreased drastically as the project grew. Went back to Next. Apart from devs, none really cares if you wrote it in Svelte, React or bare HTML/CSS or if your site loads double digit milliseconds slower.

Could you please give a heads up what makes Seveltkit difficult in a larger code base?

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#68

Post by pcthrowaway »

hbbio wrote: post #6

As the author states, ... Svelte Stores are rough. Beyond just missing usage patterns and documentation, we found that several features are lacking, especially when used with native reactivity (`$:`). Another area lacking is TypeScript support. Our frontend codebase at OKcontract is implemented with Svelte, but we had to build some low-level libraries (including a wholly new implementation of Stores) to make it worth…

I find this a bit confusing, because stores are one of Svelte's answers to react's state, and React's state is a hot mess once you go beyond component-local state

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#69

Post by [deleted] »

impulser_ wrote: post #49

I never built a web app in my life. I have always been on the server side. Recently I spent a couple days building the same web app in Next, Nuxt, and SvelteKit just to get a feel of how to build a web app today. The web app was pretty basic. A couple of pages showing data from different apis and auth with user setting page. My favorite by far was SvelteKit despite being the one with the smaller community. It was act…

[deleted]

Re: Thoughts on Svelte(Kit), one year and 3B requests later

#70

Post by xkcd1963 »

sametmax wrote: post #43

I like the fact minimalist approaches, like svelte, htmx and alpine.js are getting more and more traction. I felt like fighting this fight alone for years in the golden years of node, webpack and react where everybody was creating crazy stacks and adding GraphQL and so on, to basically get what Django + jquery did 10 years ago in a tenth of the time and code. So far I also survived: - xml is the future - let's use no…

Software itself hasn't "evolved" over the last 40 or 50 years. It only ever gets better because the hardware becomes better. There is no true innovation in software development. Folks that "innovate" either reinvent the wheel or capitalise on hardware improvement.
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