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Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

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Re: Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

#11

Not going to mention the Odyssey would have been the more appropriate reference? The Iliad isn't really that long.

> Not going to mention the Odyssey would have been the more appropriate reference? The Iliad isn't really that long.

The odyssey is modeled after the iliad. Both poems are divided into 24 books and both the trojan war and the voyage in odyssey was 10 years long. Iliad has more lines though - 15,693 (Iliad) vs 12,109 (Odyssey).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliad

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odyssey

Re: Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

#12

Not going to mention the Odyssey would have been the more appropriate reference? The Iliad isn't really that long.

> Not going to mention the Odyssey would have been the more appropriate reference? The Iliad isn't really that long. The odyssey is modeled after the iliad. Both poems are divided into 24 books and both the trojan war and the voyage in odyssey was 10 years long. Iliad has more lines though - 15,693 (Iliad) vs 12,109 (Odyssey). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iliad https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odyssey

Maybe Odyssey would have been too on-the-nose!

Re: Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

#13
post #7

I guess it's ok to swap their Customer Obsession leadership principle for dark patterns if it means squeezing out some extra dollars.

In the logic of Amazon, Customer obsession means making sure they remain customers, because Amazon is a net good in their lives. To Amazon, their labyrinthine cancellation process is like tricking your toddler into eating broccoli. Sure, it’s deceptive, but it’s good for them.

That's basically the same thing for all companies. Google believes its ads are genuinely useful to its users, so showing ads is a win-win situation for Google and for users. Showing Google users ads is like keep reminding a toddler that broccoli is good.

Re: Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

#14

Not going to mention the Odyssey would have been the more appropriate reference? The Iliad isn't really that long.

I was thinking Gilgamesh followed by Sisyphus in the form of an animated caption on John Oliver where a popup dialog continues to ask when the user confirms to cancel with another dialog.

[deleted]

Re: Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

#15
post #13
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the logic of Amazon, Customer obsession means making sure they remain customers, because Amazon is a net good in their lives. To Amazon, their labyrinthine cancellation process is like tricking your toddler into eating broccoli. Sure, it’s deceptive, but it’s good for them.

That's basically the same thing for all companies. Google believes its ads are genuinely useful to its users, so showing ads is a win-win situation for Google and for users. Showing Google users ads is like keep reminding a toddler that broccoli is good.

No, no one believes this sort of thing except perhaps a tiny minority of halfwits. Don't confuse enforced "company spirit" with reality.

Re: Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

#16
post #15
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's basically the same thing for all companies. Google believes its ads are genuinely useful to its users, so showing ads is a win-win situation for Google and for users. Showing Google users ads is like keep reminding a toddler that broccoli is good.

No, no one believes this sort of thing except perhaps a tiny minority of halfwits. Don't confuse enforced "company spirit" with reality.

That's my point. You need to really drink the koolaid to believe that for either Amazon or Google.

Re: Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

#18
post #17

The fact you can cancel online is a good thing though. Some places have you send an email which is terrible. Honestly a unified API endpoint for all this would be a godsend.

Some places make you cancel with a snail mail letter or in-person. Lots of gyms do this.

My experience cancelling prime was about 6 clicks and it was instant. Could have been 1, sure. But surprises me that the FTC is taking issue. Maybe being big is what catches their eye, while Planet Fitness flies under the radar.

Re: Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

#19

This is why I no longer use my own credit card to sign up for anything if I can avoid doing so. Instead, I use Privacy.com to generate cards for each service, and if a service decides to be a pain in the ass in terms of letting me cancel, I simply shut off its card so I can't be charged.

Paypal has it's flaws for sure, but one thing I love about paypal is ability to easily manage and turn off recurring subscriptions. One toogle bar, boom, over, gone, donezo. Easy peasy.

Re: Amazon named its “labyrinthine” Prime cancellation process after Homer’s Iliad

#20
I worked for a SMB startup years ago that had a “call us” cancellation model, mostly out of a need for several manual steps as part of offboarding and yes, probably some recognition that cancelation friction helped metrics. Eventually the support burden was too great and we built a fully automated no-BS cancellation flow. Our retention metrics immediately tanked to a greater extent than anyone had thought possible and we were forced by the CEO to redesign it with a bunch of interstitials and extra clicks.

I feel like this is the dark side of SaaS economics: lots of customers pay for recurring services they don’t use, out of optimism or laziness or something else. Being able to leverage that inertia can be profitable, even if it’s also unethical.

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