Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

youtube.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

241–246 of 246 posts

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#241

Post by boringuser2 »

mplanchard wrote: post #159
boringuser2 wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reason why I don't like that approach is because it is the approach of a career criminal. The cops wouldn't be wrong to hassle you in this interaction. An apology goes a long way. Reading some of your other posts, I fear you're too indignant. I'm not, I only want to do what would produce the best possible outcome. I don't care about anything else and I have no righteous sentiment in this scenario.

It’s also the approach of most police and lawyers, i.e. anyone who is familiar with the criminal justice system. I’ve mentioned it elsewhere, but I got this advice from my relatives who are themselves police, both state and federal. Edit: and the police would absolutely be wrong to hassle you in this situation! It’s a right. If you don’t exercise it for yourself, nobody will do it for you.

Regarding this, it's critical that you remember it's not about what's right or wrong, it's about what works and what doesn't.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#242

Post by 93po »

mindslight wrote: post #240
93po wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t care about having a bad time if it’s the result of a corrupt cop not respecting me exercising my rights. I think it is my moral imperative to use all my rights at all times with cops because it helps normalize it for others who can’t so nonchalantly have a lawyer and afford going to court. If a cop treats me courteously and greets me kindly and is respectful in doing their job, I will also greet them kindly a…

> it is my moral imperative to use all my rights at all times with cops This is a poor standard, that I doubt you're actually meeting. For example, when you drive through a construction zone, do you flip off every cop you see in order to maximize your right to free expression? I do actually agree with where you're coming from! It's just that the standard you've claimed leaves much to be desired - it's framed in a clo…

> but rather that they already have that reason but perhaps will show you mercy

And this is what I take issue with. This leads to the systemic racism we see in policing. There is no reason why a cop should change their mind on whether to ticket you for the probable cause event after they leave their vehicle and approach yours. The decision should already be made and stay that way.

> which only makes sense if you're only considering the times you have no choice but to interact with cops

Yes, I agree, but the other viewpoint I have is that I refuse to interact with cops for any reason other than being forced to. I won't talk to them, I won't call them (unless it's an emergency and someone asks me to on their behalf - and then I don't stick around unless it's crucial), I won't even open my door for them unless they have a warrant. Unless I'm being detained or they have a warrant, I'm ignoring them. If someone burst into my home right now and robbed me, I still would not call the police (although, I live alone, and having kids or a spouse might make me reconsider that since I'm calling on their behalf). I have been held at knife point fixing my car in a parking lot (Seattle) and did not call the cops.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#243

Post by 93po »

mindslight wrote: post #240
93po wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t care about having a bad time if it’s the result of a corrupt cop not respecting me exercising my rights. I think it is my moral imperative to use all my rights at all times with cops because it helps normalize it for others who can’t so nonchalantly have a lawyer and afford going to court. If a cop treats me courteously and greets me kindly and is respectful in doing their job, I will also greet them kindly a…

> it is my moral imperative to use all my rights at all times with cops This is a poor standard, that I doubt you're actually meeting. For example, when you drive through a construction zone, do you flip off every cop you see in order to maximize your right to free expression? I do actually agree with where you're coming from! It's just that the standard you've claimed leaves much to be desired - it's framed in a clo…

> Once I'm in their direct sights, to me the optimal way to play is whatever is most likely to make them let me go. If that involves playing the part of someone who enjoys licking boots? So be it! Dissent is better expressed in contexts where you aren't already in their sights.

Also the point in the video is that this never works aside from the most absolute mundane of traffic stops, and even then you're putting yourself at risk. Did you watch it?

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#244

Post by AlecSchueler »

93po wrote: post #227
HyperSane wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What does the US have to do with The Netherlands required people to have ID at all times?

he's implying that cops mistreating foreigners and brown people isn't true and that US media has portrayed this as a thing when it isn't one to be clear, my stance is BLM/ACAB

They should consider that the courts have literally ruled that the Dutch police are guilty of racial profiling: https://www.politico.eu/article/dutch-police-found-guilty-ra...

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#245

Post by mindslight »

93po wrote: post #242
mindslight wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it is my moral imperative to use all my rights at all times with cops This is a poor standard, that I doubt you're actually meeting. For example, when you drive through a construction zone, do you flip off every cop you see in order to maximize your right to free expression? I do actually agree with where you're coming from! It's just that the standard you've claimed leaves much to be desired - it's framed in a clo…

> but rather that they already have that reason but perhaps will show you mercy And this is what I take issue with. This leads to the systemic racism we see in policing. There is no reason why a cop should change their mind on whether to ticket you for the probable cause event after they leave their vehicle and approach yours. The decision should already be made and stay that way. > which only makes sense if you're o…

> This leads to the systemic racism we see in policing

It allows for it, but doesn't inherently lead to it. But I do agree that overbearing laws and relying on leniency makes for a terrible system. I'd be all for changing speed limits to be sensible with how people actually drive [0], and then zero tolerance enforcement (including for cops). But that isn't the world we live in now. And electing into being a martyr isn't going to change that - cops will just sort you personally into the "bad" person bucket and carry on with their prejudices.

> Also the point in the video is that this never works aside from the most absolute mundane of traffic stops, and even then you're putting yourself at risk. Did you watch it?

Not in the last 10 years, and yes I am talking about the most mundane of traffic stops. IMO the main risk comes from people spilling their internal narrative that justifies what they did, thinking that will convince a cop. "I was only speeding because I was late" etc. Don't do that! Or obviously if you have contraband in the car or are under the influence, engage as little as possible! But if that is the case then you shouldn't have been casually violating the law to begin with (and so there should be much less to hope for leniency for)....

> If someone burst into my home right now and robbed me, I still would not call the police

I'd say this is a quite uncommon perspective - I would guess that you have had repeated very poor interactions with the police. And I say this as someone who has been wrongly arrested (aka kidnapped), detained for a night (aka ransomed), and then harassed for a year by the "justice" system. I've still called the cops since then. I'm just not the kind of person who wants to get physically aggressive, which is what would otherwise be required to DIY.

[0] For example on interstates, raise the limit for sustained speed over several miles to 80 mph, with an instantaneous speed limit of 90 or so, for passing.

Post reply on HN