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I give up on free software phones (2019)

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Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#191

Post by NovaDudely »

jancsika wrote: post #170
NovaDudely wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Punkt if it had an open software stack would have a sizable market, not main stream but definitely something reasonable. Something else that platforms like that, and for everyone else, is a standardized means of communicating with banks. That way it is not up to the bank to build and maintain apps for seperate platforms. That one devices like Punkt could build alternative apps to do these kinds of functions. Great in…

> lot of promoting their alarm clock (whatever) Maybe we should back up before smartphones. Even back up before desktops. Could 2023 be the year of the Linux alarm clock?

Doesn't need linux, it is an actual physical alarm clock!

https://www.punkt.ch/en/products/ac02-alarm-clock/

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#192

Post by ohthehugemanate »

I can't believe there's no mention here of sailfishos.org, which runs great on Sony xperia devices and even runs android apps. It's Linux (Intel/Nokia Meego, specifically) with a proprietary UI.

Would I prefer an OSS UI? Yes. But for a real, viable duopoly alternative it is worth the sacrifice to me.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#193

Post by not_your_vase »

Arnavion wrote: post #109
chongli wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your conspiracy explanation doesn’t pass the sniff test. There’s a much much simpler explanation: lack of demand. Heck, you’d think people on hacker news would be all over open source alternatives to proprietary hardware, software, and services. Yet take a brief wander over to one of the many (many) recent Reddit crisis threads and you’ll find countless naysayers talking about how lemmy and the like will never succee…

>Heck, you’d think people on hacker news would be all over open source alternatives to proprietary hardware, software, and services. Yes, every PinePhone thread has people posting that it's unusable because it's not as good as a flagship iPhone or Android. Or the usual "not ready to be a daily driver" ... because the definition of "daily driver" is apparently a constant of the universe written by God so everyone is e…

This is kind of my biggest gripe with Pine64 (beside the unusable modem in the Pinephones, which crashes all the time): the community. Every time I google something related a pine* product problem, there is at least 1 result from pine64 forum where the answer is along the lines of "if you don't like it, go away. we are happy with it as it is, there is no solution, and you shouldn't be seeking one. you are bad person for even asking. pine* is not made by apple/samsung, you can't expect it to do things".

I have quite a bunch of pine64 devices, but after I saw these interactions, I didn't even dare to ask anything nor to interact with them on any level.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#194

Post by Arnavion »

not_your_vase wrote: post #193
Arnavion wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Heck, you’d think people on hacker news would be all over open source alternatives to proprietary hardware, software, and services. Yes, every PinePhone thread has people posting that it's unusable because it's not as good as a flagship iPhone or Android. Or the usual "not ready to be a daily driver" ... because the definition of "daily driver" is apparently a constant of the universe written by God so everyone is e…

This is kind of my biggest gripe with Pine64 (beside the unusable modem in the Pinephones, which crashes all the time): the community. Every time I google something related a pine* product problem, there is at least 1 result from pine64 forum where the answer is along the lines of "if you don't like it, go away. we are happy with it as it is, there is no solution, and you shouldn't be seeking one. you are bad person…

>(beside the unusable modem in the Pinephones, which crashes all the time)

Install the OSS firmware. Quectel firmware is shitty. For me the OSS firmware doesn't crash at all, though I've heard other people say it still crashes for them once a day or so (?). In any case eg25-m will bring it back so it won't be "unusable".

>"if you don't like it, go away. we are happy with it as it is, there is no solution, and you shouldn't be seeking one. you are bad person for even asking. pine* is not made by apple/samsung, you can't expect it to do things".

You only get these responses if you reveal yourself as someone who didn't read the warning labels before buying the hardware and/or if you act entitled to a solution, as AndyKelley did in this thread. We indeed do not have any patience for someone who comes in and says "It's complete trash. The software is shit, the battery is shit, it's expensive, low specs, completely unusable."

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#195

Post by StingyJelly »

sleepycatgirl wrote: post #86
StingyJelly wrote: post #54

Since 2019 the landscape has deffinitely changed. "Hardcore" Free Software phones like Pinephone, Librem or PostmarketOS are still difficult but if LineageOS is Free-Software-enough for you, don't give up now. There is grapheneOS that should be no-compromises solution with it's sandboxed google apps. (Haven't used it myself.) MicroG now passes safetynet once again and is pretty stable. (Altrough on some phones you ma…

Huh. My new phone doesn't have Google play services, so I kept old OP6 solely for the bank app... but the bank app is also on the huawei app store... So now I am almost tempted to see if I can get the bank app on my current phone, and then, finally try out postmarketOS on the OP6

I think there's a good chance that the huawei version of the app will work even without huawei services except for push notifications. SDM845 is now probably the best chipset for postmarketOS so I hope you'll be able to play with it.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#196

Post by Hackbraten »

AndyKelley wrote: post #75

I got my librem in the mail last week after waiting several years(!!) for shipping. It's complete trash. The software is shit, the battery is shit, it's expensive, low specs, completely unusable. I'm willing to compromise a lot in order to go with the free software approach, but my god, just do better. There's no excuse for how un-functional this thing is. Try harder. I had the same reaction with the pine phone a cou…

Sorry to hear that. I’m waiting for my Librem 5 myself and I’m also bracing myself for disappointment, especially given the years of waiting.

A small consolation may be the fact that not all the software development effort we’ve paid for is lost. On the contrary, the work Purism has done both in userspace and kernel have immense value. One day, another Linux-based phone will appear, and it’s going to stand on the shoulders of what Purism did. It’s never going to be perfect, or even nearly as polished as the duopoly UX we’re accustomed to. But it’s going to be good enough, no matter if Purism will even be around by then.

Also, the software for our Librems will only become better with time, as annoyances are ironed out.

tl;dr Purism is definitely underdelivering, and we have all reason to be mad at them. It’s only going to get better though.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#197

Post by not_your_vase »

Arnavion wrote: post #194
not_your_vase wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of my biggest gripe with Pine64 (beside the unusable modem in the Pinephones, which crashes all the time): the community. Every time I google something related a pine* product problem, there is at least 1 result from pine64 forum where the answer is along the lines of "if you don't like it, go away. we are happy with it as it is, there is no solution, and you shouldn't be seeking one. you are bad person…

>(beside the unusable modem in the Pinephones, which crashes all the time) Install the OSS firmware. Quectel firmware is shitty. For me the OSS firmware doesn't crash at all, though I've heard other people say it still crashes for them once a day or so (?). In any case eg25-m will bring it back so it won't be "unusable". >"if you don't like it, go away. we are happy with it as it is, there is no solution, and you sho…

I have tried each every available modem fw versions, including the closed source ones, and all possible versions from biktor also (I did run multi-day experiments with each of them, taking notes about their stability, looking for a working version). Every single one of them crashes, the only difference is the time spent between crashes. Maybe it is usable for you. My definition is different - if I can't rely on it for any period of time, it is not suitable for any purpose, but for messing around.

I won't try to convince anyone about the (un)friendliness of the community. If you enjoy its current state, good for you. I, for one, avoid it. I guess everyone can decide what community they want to participate.

While GP's language was definitely coarse, he does make some point. Personally I'm in for the hacking, I care relatively little for other people's (userspace-) software on these devices. But I do see a lot of sentiments around the web saying things like "look how good phosh/kde/XYZ is running on the PP, wow, such speed, many responsiveness" - even though it is objectively not running good when tried in person. Such statements can definitely trick users who just want a novelty phone - they read these reviews, and think that finally there is a viable alternative.

(Disclaimer: while I'm not a fan of some aspects like userspace sw and community, I'm a big fan of most Pine64 hardware, and I not only don't regret any cent I spent with them, I plan to throw more money at them.)

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#198

Post by tmtvl »

Gigachad wrote: post #165
api wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What efforts like Purism should do is greatly reduce their scope. Make a device that does the basics which would be phone, text, basic web, and maybe a media player or support in the web browser for this use case. At first anything else could be accessed via the web, and maybe look at introducing PWAs as a way to do basic apps. Keep the GUI as simple as possible with the smallest number of options and features as pos…

At this point I think the task is simply impossible, the minimum required features on a phone are too high now. If it doesn't have all day battery life, maps, and have a good camera, it's useless. So all you'll still have a real phone with you anyway. We may as well be talking about an open source, community developed trip to the moon. There are no viable intermediary steps. You either have billions of dollars to fin…

Fun fact: according to Wikipedia the revenue of Apple in 2022 was 394.3 bn USD*, while the GDP of Finland was 321.2 bn USD**.

In other words Apple could outspend a member of the EU. I don't think a crowd-sourced community project can match that.

* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc.

** https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finland

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#199

Post by opan »

BSEdlMMldESB wrote: post #76
AndyKelley wrote: post #75

I got my librem in the mail last week after waiting several years(!!) for shipping. It's complete trash. The software is shit, the battery is shit, it's expensive, low specs, completely unusable. I'm willing to compromise a lot in order to go with the free software approach, but my god, just do better. There's no excuse for how un-functional this thing is. Try harder. I had the same reaction with the pine phone a cou…

no excuse, merely a conspiracy explanation: it simply cannot be permitted. somebody realized PC market/platform made a huge "mistake", letting anybody make software for them and permitting random hardware. this 'mistake' was avoided on smartphones for very pointed, clear, intentions of social control. there exists NO homebrew smartphone hardware like for PCs.

I believe there are some limiting laws/regulations around radios that make DIY, free, hackable ones usually not allowed. So, modems, WLAN cards, wireless routers... tend to be quite proprietary.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#200

Post by yaky »

dreamcompiler wrote: post #161

This answers a question that's been bugging me: Why TF can I not find a Calendar app on the Play Store that does not depend on Google Calendar? I used to have one 5 years ago that was completely separate, but now I'm apparently not allowed to have a calendar app that does not send all my calendar info to Google. So now I have this very nice Android phone that does not have a Calendar app because Google won't allow su…

On F-Droid, there is Etar, a calendar app, and Offline Calendar, which is pretty much a script that creates local calendars not tied to Google or any other service. Worked pretty well for me a few years ago on LineageOS+microG.

Etar: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/ws.xsoh.etar/ Offline Calendar: https://f-droid.org/en/packages/org.sufficientlysecure.local...

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