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I give up on free software phones (2019)

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Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#111

Post by superchroma »

Arnavion wrote: post #99
OldManRyan wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They shouldn't need to understand it. I don't understand the first thing about how my phone works or mobile development in general. It just works and does what I need it to do.

Yes they do need to understand it. If you believe you don't need or want to understand it, then Linux phones are not for you. It's okay. Really. Not everything has to be for everyone, and evidently Linux phones are not for you. Please don't buy them. Thanks.

typical user-hostile linux user opinion. If you're wondering why the year of the linux desktop hasn't happened yet, this is why.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#112

Post by Arnavion »

BSEdlMMldESB wrote: post #82
chongli wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your conspiracy explanation doesn’t pass the sniff test. There’s a much much simpler explanation: lack of demand. Heck, you’d think people on hacker news would be all over open source alternatives to proprietary hardware, software, and services. Yet take a brief wander over to one of the many (many) recent Reddit crisis threads and you’ll find countless naysayers talking about how lemmy and the like will never succee…

it is really incredible, how could lack of demand be made to happen? but I'm not trying to imply anything. I merely wonder if such a thing (to create or destroy demand of something) is possible; and if it were, how would you do it? surely it involves marketing? but I also want to reflect on the market cap of convenience...

Linux phones are a niche within a niche. Marketing won't do anything to change that. Most people are satisfied with iPhones and Androids, and the few that aren't are mostly satisfied with degoogled Androids.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#113

Post by Arnavion »

superchroma wrote: post #111
Arnavion wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes they do need to understand it. If you believe you don't need or want to understand it, then Linux phones are not for you. It's okay. Really. Not everything has to be for everyone, and evidently Linux phones are not for you. Please don't buy them. Thanks.

typical user-hostile linux user opinion. If you're wondering why the year of the linux desktop hasn't happened yet, this is why.

The only people who wonder about the year of the Linux desktop are the people who don't use Linux :) We Linux users are happily using it already and don't really care what other people use.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#114

Post by NovaDudely »

anonym29 wrote: post #45
jancsika wrote: post #33

Someone should do a Linux phone that scales way back: 1. you can dial phone numbers somehow 2. you can talk on the phone 3. you can hear the person on the other line 4. the cell reception on the phone is decent quality 5. antenna is properly placed for very good reception 6. basic SMS works, all the time 7. has been extensively tested to work with a single carrier, any other carrier is no warranty 8. boot time and sh…

https://www.punkt.ch/en/products/mp02-4g-mobile-phone/ Not advocating for this, I do not own one, but I'm pretty sure this substantially covers all goals listed minus #8 (plus an unlisted one - Signal integration). I investigated and considered this option carefully. Ultimately ended up doing a Pixel running GrapheneOS (no microG) as a stop-gap until I buy either a Pinephone or Librem, once those are a little more us…

Punkt if it had an open software stack would have a sizable market, not main stream but definitely something reasonable.

Something else that platforms like that, and for everyone else, is a standardized means of communicating with banks. That way it is not up to the bank to build and maintain apps for seperate platforms. That one devices like Punkt could build alternative apps to do these kinds of functions.

Great in theory, a nightmare in practice. It would open up the means of fake apps to steal details. Also as the XKCD comics said - You have 15 standards, lets make a new better one, there are now 16 standards.

Side note on Punkt. They have one of the best monthly emails and I would highly recommend. Usually only a 2-3 minute read, lot of promoting their alarm clock (whatever) has a decent book recommendation and occasionally a link to a short article.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#115

Post by TRiG_Ireland »

AdamJacobMuller wrote: post #101
maratc wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The meaning of the word "phone" has shifted in the recent years, and your requirements are a good representation of what that word meant in circa 2007; recently however the requirements 1-8 have so little relevance that it's possible to operate a device without satisfying any of them [0]. The new meaning of the word is an expanded version of #9 whereas it's a connected gadget that runs apps from the well-stocked buil…

Exactly true. From the original list, I really don't care at all about 1/2/3 (phone calls) and only care vaguely about SMS. My requirements are for an excellent browser and an app store with support for messaging platforms (telegram/signal/skype/slack/teams/etc) and email support, everything else is either "extra" or an outright distraction I'd probably be better off without (twitter, reddit, etc).

My phone exists mostly for YouTube, WhatsApp, and providing a wifi hotspot for my desktop computers. (It is irritating that much about the phone itself assumes that the mobile broadband is a fallback, and that I have a separate internet connection to give me wifi. I don't. It sometimes refuses to install updates over mobile broadband, and insists that I find a wifi connection from somewhere, by going out to a café or something.)

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#116

Post by bobthepanda »

jstarfish wrote: post #108
fooqux wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Personally, I have no interest in making phone calls. You say that now, but wait until you need to dial 911.

Phones really need a hardware button or key combination for this-- tap out SOS on the power button or something. It may well be the last phone call one makes in their life, but the ability to do it at all is predicated on the integrity of a piece of glass. It's insane.

Iphones do have a hardware button combo for 911 that doesn’t require the screen if you hold down long enough: https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208076

The issue is that you don’t want the button to be easy enough to press that 911 gets flooded with butt dials.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#117

Post by OldManRyan »

Arnavion wrote: post #104
OldManRyan wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't need to understand it according to Librem. They are marketing a "user-friendly"(their words) replacement for iPhone and Android. If this was a product sold for the most hardcore Linux users who dream about bash scripts then yeah this isn't a product for me and that's fine. But, that isn't what they are trying to sell and that is the problem.

"replacement for iPhone and Android" are your words, not theirs. And as for the PP the manufacturer has always been very explicit about it: https://pine64.com/product/pinephone-beta-edition-with-conve... >Beta Edition PinePhones are aimed solely at early adopters. More specifically, only intend for these units to find their way into the hands of users with extensive Linux experience.

I have a Braveheart edition Pinephone for experiments. I know that Pine64 devices are very bluntly a work in progress. I'm more specifically talking about Librem in this case.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#118

Post by xethos »

TheAceOfHearts wrote: post #93
AndyKelley wrote: post #75

I got my librem in the mail last week after waiting several years(!!) for shipping. It's complete trash. The software is shit, the battery is shit, it's expensive, low specs, completely unusable. I'm willing to compromise a lot in order to go with the free software approach, but my god, just do better. There's no excuse for how un-functional this thing is. Try harder. I had the same reaction with the pine phone a cou…

Also received my librem 5 recently, and it's incredibly disappointing. The software in particular is incredibly buggy and janky. When I open the app store it just fails to load things sometimes. Even the FirefoxOS device I tried a few years ago was better.

> When I open the app store it just fails to load things sometimes.

Considering how many desktop linux distros fall down with this, you may be expecting too much of your beta-level phones. It's been years, yes, but power management isn't exactly easy. Just look at how bad Linux laptops were even just a few years ago - hell, look at how long it took the multinational mega-corporation to get Android's background power consumption down. It was so bad people on XDA set Tasker to turn off BT, location, and even wifi when not in use.

You're right, FLOSS phones currently aren't good. But they finally exist, and that's enough for me to be excited about

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#119

Post by NovaDudely »

salawat wrote: post #48
user_7832 wrote: post #18

On a similar note I've been wanting to buy and use a fully "free" phone - one where I have complete control over most if not all things. But it appears to me that unless you use a regular "phone", there is no way you can DIY your way into building a "modern" phone bit by bit like how a desktop could be made.* Calling/4g/5g require specific hardware that seems difficult to integrate at a hobbyist level (unlike say ins…

Baseband and cryptographic shenanigans are a pox to FLOSS/H. Particularly on the hardware front, since there is a vested interest/requirement for operating Telco's to maintain backdoor functionality/capabilities for the local government. It's just like payment processing. Everyone having their own stack is such a great sounding idea, but the Establishment/System is tuned such that it can never happen, and in the even…

The base-band issue is the Achilles heel of the whole idea. Depending on which government you are under, even trying to implement the exact same functionality via open software is seen as tampering with a radio device and can get you in a lot of trouble. With that one move, they have effectively killed any possibility of a completely open system ever happening.

Re: I give up on free software phones (2019)

#120

Post by 2OEH8eoCRo0 »

chongli wrote: post #80
BSEdlMMldESB wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

no excuse, merely a conspiracy explanation: it simply cannot be permitted. somebody realized PC market/platform made a huge "mistake", letting anybody make software for them and permitting random hardware. this 'mistake' was avoided on smartphones for very pointed, clear, intentions of social control. there exists NO homebrew smartphone hardware like for PCs.

Your conspiracy explanation doesn’t pass the sniff test. There’s a much much simpler explanation: lack of demand. Heck, you’d think people on hacker news would be all over open source alternatives to proprietary hardware, software, and services. Yet take a brief wander over to one of the many (many) recent Reddit crisis threads and you’ll find countless naysayers talking about how lemmy and the like will never succee…

My personal favorite explanation for nearly everything: money

Locked down platforms without user freedom are a goldmine

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