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Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

arstechnica.com

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Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#641

Post by ikekkdcjkfke »

brutusborn wrote: post #408
Aeolun wrote: post #365

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’d expect companies that sell these kinds of tours for 250k a pop to be vetted though? If it’s uncle bob in his garage I’d be fine with lack of regulation, but when he starts commercially selling his trips he’d need to pass safety standards.

No, you’d only expect that if you have authoritarian values. In a truly free world, people are allowed to make dumb, risky decisions.

It's a "can't have nice things" situation. Some or multiple idiots does something stupid that hurts a bunch of people and the thing gets regulated, like a whole town burning down or a high rise collapsing

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#642

Post by csb6 »

vanviegen wrote: post #635
csb6 wrote: post #541

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can't stop that, and personally, I don't think its a good idea. To get it you'd need a nanny state that snoops on everyone and steps in to stop you "for your own safety". It's easy to imagine scenarios where this gets out of hand. Personally, I think it ought to be illegal to misrepresent your service’s safety. I seriously doubt the passengers onboard were aware of OceanGate’s whistleblower lawsuit or the claim…

> Personally, I think it ought to be illegal to misrepresent your service’s safety Of course it is. But I think GP was just saying that there are no agencies to check rare venture like this. At least not before an incident happens.

I agree that there doesn’t currently seem to be regulations governing what OceanGate is doing. My point is that there should be some in the future so this kind of thing doesn’t keep happening.

> But I think GP was just saying that there are no agencies to check rare venture like this.

I think they were making a stronger claim: that there is not only no agency currently doing this, but that it is pointless and impossible to try and regulate this area, which I don’t agree with.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#643

Post by somerandomqaguy »

dharmab wrote: post #452
nocoiner wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’ve owned and used Virpil and VKB, and they’re both terrific (Virpil is just insanely over the top good, though), but I wouldn’t even think to put them in the same sentence as Logitech. And I think Logitech makes pretty good peripherals generally! But that enthusiast sim stuff is just in a different realm. Anyway, my point is, I wouldn’t necessarily look down on a Logitech controller. Now if it were MadCatz….

And yet, the Logitech X56 is substantially more expensive than a VKB Gladiator...

The X56 can't be compared to the VKB Gladiator. The X56 is full HOTAS with split throttle and an twist axis on the stick itself. The VKB Gladiator needs to purchase an additional module for twist and VKB doesn't even have a split throttle.

Also keep in mind that the X56, X52 Pro, and X52 weren't Logitech either. Logitech bought out Saitek which was the original vendor and at least at first glance they haven't updated the designs in over a decade.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#644

Post by windowshopping »

rgovostes wrote: post #551
windowshopping wrote: post #390

Can anyone who knows something about this industry answer a question? I know nothing about it and I was surprised to read about this situation because I would have assumed a submersible would be in fairly constant sonar contact with its surface vessel. I would've thought it would be followed a rigidly planned route and its location relative to the surface ship would be well understood at all times, i.e. "you are 3508…

Think about all the methods used throughout human history to determine location. Looking toward distant mountain ranges, determining the positions of the stars, measuring shadows cast by the sun, receiving signals from GPS satellites... none of those work underwater. The support vessel relies on acoustic pings to track the submersible. If the submersible stops responding, or is out of detection range, you'd have no i…

> The support vessel relies on acoustic pings to track the submersible. If the submersible stops responding, or is out of detection range, you'd have no idea where it is.

Sure, but you'd know the last location, wouldn't you? Especially if it's pinging at least once a minute? And if the craft failed, surely they would just set down on the floor nearby, not travel miles in a random direction sideway.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#645

Post by PUSH_AX »

dharmab wrote: post #594
thehappypm wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would off the shelf be considered a bad thing? If you’re an engineer, finding a reliable part from a supplier that meets your spec is an amazing thing. Intel processors are off the shelf, as are 555 timers, screws, literally everything. Not every field is like computer science where “isEven” has a library that makes sense to avoid

It's less than it's off the shelf and more that it's the cheap brand your mom might buy your little brother as a second controller because it's half the price of the first-party one.

It’s cheap because it’s mass produced. If you asked for one you’d be charged for all the engineering, r&d and manufacturing for a one off. It would be a suitably expensive controller, but probably no higher quality.

The cheap controller angle is noise in my opinion.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#646

Post by MagicMoonlight »

Aperocky wrote: post #581
ssnistfajen wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

According to this article, the submersible had 7 safety features, 5 of which involves shedding weights: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-65965665

Hopefully all of these features are independently tested.

Why would you need to test it? You only use it in an emergency

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#647

Post by danbolt »

kbenson wrote: post #242
cpleppert wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Xbox controllers are used to control the periscope which is not a safety critical device. Regardless, the navy uses wired controllers and did extensive testing and verification. This outfit didn't do anything like that; in one video with a journalist the bluetooth controller was a 'feature' because they could pass it around the sub.

The testing and verification is key. It might even be they were trying to lean on some work done by the navy on the Xbox 360 controller and that got switched along the line for the Logitech, losing one of the main reasons for using the original choice. In any case, I would hope they brought a spare (or had an alternative method to drive, even if cumbersome), as easy spares is one of the selling points of COTS parts (…

I wonder if using an XInput controller has a perk in that it’s relatively straightforward to find a second source if needed. Or, if one manufacturer isn’t working for them, they have a specification for controlling the periscope.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#648

Post by MagicMoonlight »

PUSH_AX wrote: post #645
dharmab wrote: post #594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's less than it's off the shelf and more that it's the cheap brand your mom might buy your little brother as a second controller because it's half the price of the first-party one.

It’s cheap because it’s mass produced. If you asked for one you’d be charged for all the engineering, r&d and manufacturing for a one off. It would be a suitably expensive controller, but probably no higher quality. The cheap controller angle is noise in my opinion.

It’s cheap because if it breaks you just get a new one. A part for a vehicle needs more reliability than that so it costs more.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#649

Post by MagicMoonlight »

thesausageking wrote: post #98
aezart wrote: post #7

The fact that it's wireless is the scariest part to me. What if it runs out of battery? What if it desyncs?

They have multiple of them on board and can swap in a new one if there's an issue. The focus on the controller is misplaced to me. Game controllers are well made and better suited for the job than custom hardware. It's just the association with videogames that makes it seem odd. If they used $30 logitech keyboard as well, would anyone question that?

And if someone drains the spares and forgets to charge them? I doubt they have pre-sink checks where they plug in all the batteries.

It’s stupid because it adds needless risk and another failure point for no benefit.

Re: Submarine missing near Titanic used a $30 Logitech gamepad for steering

#650

Post by mlsu »

StillBored wrote: post #315

A lot of people going on about the game controller, which itself wouldn't bother me if there was a direct connection way to control it too (aka via the touchscreens). What bothers me more and is clear as day in those pictures are things like the screws into the carbon fiber pressure hull holding the screens up. There was someone (ex test engineer?) on reddit yesterday talking about a few things, but what really stuck…

There is no way for a leak to happen without implosion. At 400 atmospheres a hairline crack is total destruction in less than a second.
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