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Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

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Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#241

Post by JumpCrisscross »

youreincorrect wrote: post #136
cs702 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison to Madoff is not apt. Madoff hid losses by committing accounting fraud, whereas every single transaction in the Bitcoin network is visible to everyone and, moreover, cryptographically verifiable by everyone. As long as the distributed consensus algorithm continues to function, Bitcoin will continue to exist. Period. (Government regulations cannot kill it; they can only drive it underground, as with gol…

When people talk about Bitcoin's potential demise, they are referring to its price and perceived value, not whether it will cease to exist necessarily. Madoff also was not ultimately caught and his scheme ended because of the accounting fraud being revealed (i.e. the fraud was not that important). That happened later. He was caught because a market downturn resulted in him being unable to acquire new victims for the…

> When people talk about Bitcoin's potential demise, they are referring to its price and perceived value

And arguably, Madoff-style Ponzi schemes are more prevalent than ever.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#242

Post by TX81Z »

Joeboy wrote: post #101
EA-3167 wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a lot of sunk cost in those comments, along with a lot of frustrated ideology. For people who thought they had finally gotten a way to bring their ideology into the real world, or imagined all sorts of riches, the state of crypto and the burgeoning regulatory environment may be too much to emotionally process and accept. As for why there isn't much in the way of thorough rebuttals, I suspect anyone tr…

"Get out of crypto trading platforms" is entirely aligned with the "idealogical" crypto people, isn't it? "Not your keys, not your coins" and that.

The “not your keys set” is fine, most of them got their BTC at $1 and if BTC falls to $3 they still tripled initial investment.

The people who got in later don’t understand “owning” a bitcoin on an exchange and having the key in your possession are VERY different. Those people are idiots.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#244

Post by skyyler »

quotz wrote: post #191
skyyler wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I sold a bunch of BTC for $1 and bought a car with it. I used to regret that, the most expensive Ford Escort ever purchased. But now I feel like I dodged a bullet, I could have been one of those zealots that spent all day every day thinking about crypto, and I'm very glad I'm not.

Zealot or not, it sucks to miss out on having a few dozen millions. My cofounder also sold very early and he refrains from talking about it

Knowing I wouldn't have to work if I just held on to it...

It does sting. But I had to get a car to get to work back then. So there's not much to be mad about.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#245

Post by jonhohle »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #160
cs702 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's true for gold too: Most gold transactions happen in exchanges. But the fact that there are successful intermediaries in the gold market is not an argument against gold's viability as a store of value. Ditto for Bitcoin.

This is whataboutism. The claim is that BTC surely isn't fraud because the chain is public knowledge. This is irrelevant, because the vast majority of data is bullshit. The gold market has been manipulated to and fro, even with regulations. The idea that BTC isn't manipulated to oblivion JUST BECAUSE there's a public ledger (missing 99.99% of the data) is naive.

Whataboutism is a method of responding to an accusation by making a counter-accusation against an opponent. (What about her e-mails?)

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#246

Post by anonymouskimmer »

lamontcg wrote: post #162
cs702 wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah, I see what you mean now. I agree with you on the Lindy effect. What I meant is that the arguments used by many past predictions of Bitcoin's demise have been proven wrong. Anyone making new predictions of Bitcoin's demise must explain precisely how and why its distributed network would fail. Sorry if that wasn't clear in my comment above!

> Anyone making new predictions of Bitcoin's demise must explain precisely how and why its distributed network would fail. A systemic banking panic. Everyone becomes worried about being able to extract money/value from the crypto ecosystem as a whole due to the failure of some exceptionally large entity (Coinbase or Binance or Tether failing). They all run for the exits at the same time trying to cash whatever crypto…

> Everyone becomes worried about being able to extract money/value from the crypto ecosystem as a whole due

Some of those "everyone" are people who live in countries with both currency controls (so they can basically only buy their national currency, or cryptocurrencies), and a horribly inflating national currency. Even a non-exchangeable-for-fiat Bitcoin is better in their eyes than the only other alternative they have. No one wants to spend 100 trillion Zimbabwean dollars on a loaf of bread.

In the more stable world you'd need the failure/shutdown of exchanges approximately simultaneous with the strengthening of those national currencies. It might happen, but it'll be a while.

I'm anti-crypto, I just don't see it happening in the near term.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#247

Post by anonymouskimmer »

bb88 wrote: post #231
lamontcg wrote: post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Anyone making new predictions of Bitcoin's demise must explain precisely how and why its distributed network would fail. A systemic banking panic. Everyone becomes worried about being able to extract money/value from the crypto ecosystem as a whole due to the failure of some exceptionally large entity (Coinbase or Binance or Tether failing). They all run for the exits at the same time trying to cash whatever crypto…

Systemic banking panic. Or systemic crypto panic. But there could be lots of causes for it. Mining made illegal by locales, states, or countries -- because of energy pricing. BTC transfers made illegal through law or made undesirable in some way (say KYC but with like actual teeth) And then there's the long shot chance that a nation-state (China perhaps) figures how to program their quantum computers to break BTC alg…

You don't need a "nation-state", any old sovereign state will do fine.

I've read that various cryptocurrencies (including Bitcoin) are/have worked on quantum-proof verification algorithms. Not sure what it entails, but people are working on it.

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#248

Post by nwiswell »

thworp wrote: post #115
cs702 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The comparison to Madoff is not apt. Madoff hid losses by committing accounting fraud, whereas every single transaction in the Bitcoin network is visible to everyone and, moreover, cryptographically verifiable by everyone. As long as the distributed consensus algorithm continues to function, Bitcoin will continue to exist. Period. (Government regulations cannot kill it; they can only drive it underground, as with gol…

No, this is an absolutely ass-backwards argument. To be a currency or a store of value or money (read: to be of any use) it has to be exchangeable for goods and services . Now we can see transactions on the blockchain but we have no idea what that transaction was for. *Nobody* can tell you what a bitcoins worth of wheat is without resorting to exchange rates of bitcoin to actual currencies. But because the entire exc…

Isn't this counter-argument equally applicable to silver or gold?

Re: Former US SEC attorney: 'Get out of crypto platforms now'

#249

Post by friend_and_foe »

Hermitian909 wrote: post #60
waynecochran wrote: post #45

With crypto trading platforms, the SEC lacks any sort of oversight and access — and has scant ability to detect, investigate and deter fraudulent conduct. As a result, the crypto marketplace operates without much supervision Isn't that the main idea of a decentralized currency? No doubt this has/does/will harbor criminal activity, but it will also foster the ability to exchange goods and services without third partie…

Sure - and the question is - do we as a society want to allow that, do we think it's worth the tradeoffs? Five years ago I think the answer was still "wait and see", I think it's reasonable by now to say "actually, no, it's not worth it".

No, the question is do we as individuals think it is worth the trade offs. And so any answer here is irrelevant, because it only applies to the person answering the question.

Unfortunately for people who say no to it, it's the same as people who don't like fiat money or the gold standard or whatever: youre stuck with it whether you like it or not. I don't think this stuff is going away.

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