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Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#321
post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An 8 stall Tesla charging station has a throughput of ~24 cars per hour. A 4 lane interstate can handle ~8k per hour. So, to support peak throughput between cities, you'd need ~2700 stalls every 100 miles or so. But this assumes 100% EVs. With current growth projections, we'd half this ~12 years from now. That seems completely doable, tbh. Cost is an interesting issue. Capital costs aren't particularly excessive, at…

> It isn't clear what will happen, but I wouldn't bet on increased utilization automatically leading to higher rates. Why not? Especially considering that doing this at scale means having sufficient numbers of charging stations at apartment complexes, condos, etc.

My electricity as $/kwh has gone down over the past 10 years. All else being equal, my bill stayed the same. That's because the fixed $/month for maintenance _doubled_.

I've since added an EV increasing my usage. It costs less than it would have 10 years ago. I've seen the same thing playing out with other utilities in my state and across the country.

Increased kwh consumption with relatively flat peak demand[1] means that the fixed costs of running and maintaining utilities is a smaller overall percentage of energy costs. OTOH, increased demand drives higher prices which is a conflicting factor. At DCFC it is pretty easy to work this out, as good utilization always helps. At residences, the impacts are far less clear.

[1] Interestingly, the bulk of EV charging is effectively addressable demand. We are already seeing a lot of utility experimentation in this area.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And/or, since automakers evidently need some sort of agreement with Tesla[1], if it takes a while, it could be due to negotiations. For example, if there are fees for using the connector (not sure), an automaker might hold out to get the best price. There may be terms related to the rates that will be paid for using Tesla's charging stations. There might be other issues. Maybe Tesla wants to qualify automakers' desig…

> Maybe Tesla wants to qualify automakers' designs so cars don't cause problems with their charging network, or vice versa. I shouldn't need Exxon and Shell and Phillips and Wawa and Sheetz and whoever to qualify my car to get gas. I shouldn't need Tesla and EA and whoever to qualify my car to get electricity. I don't see how anyone can see that and think its a good thing.

I don't like that a single private company is in charge of this standard, but I think this sort of thing is pretty common and necessary when two companies integrate technologies.

For example, look at how USB C compatibility worked at first. There was a standard, but there were still lots of problems. In practice, implementers may not correctly understand certain parts of the standard, may not grasp the importance of doing something a specific way, or may try to cut corners. Also, the standard may have omissions or errors.

All of this should theoretically be fed back into a future version of the standard, but with evolving technologies, it takes time to get there.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My friend who is not an EV driver got stuck with an EV rental (Bolt) for a semi-rural trip and boy was that a ton of drama. I’ve been thinking hard about an EV myself and now I’m looking at PHEVs instead. I’ve gotten a crash course in EV charging around here and it’s not good. Level 2 chargers are not for spontaneous trips and level 1 chargers are fucking pointless. It estimated two and a half days to charge from 40-…

A Bolt is about the worst EV someone could use for a road trip.

Oh it was terrible even by proxy. It would drop estimated range at about 2 miles per mile. Took all day to get between two metropolitan areas. Spent several hours at a level 2 to ensure they didn’t get stuck in the woods with crap cell coverage.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#324
post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

I mean, the range/$ seems to be a pretty good moat. Last I checked, the only cars with a decent amount of range per dollar were at the very low end (Chevy Bolt) and had very little range (200 miles vs 300 miles for Tesla M3).

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. Agree 100%. At present, Tesla really feels like a bit of a "Jack of all trades, master of none" job. I'm certainly no Elon fanboi, but I will happily state that there are clearly a number of things they do well (certain core components and the charging network). But the cars themselves as a who…

> At present, Tesla really feels like a bit of a "Jack of all trades, master of none" job. That's an odd take. Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the world, and the second best selling vehicle in the US after the Ford F-150. It outsells the Corolla, Camry, Rav4, Civic, etc. Look at Mercedes, BMW and Audi sales, they've been plummeting because everyone is buying a Tesla instead. They're also the leading battery st…

I've had a Tesla (Model S) since early 2020 and once the initial allure wore offI've missed driving a BMW and once the i5 is here I'll be backing to driving BMW. The supercharger network is by far the reason I've stuck with the Tesla this long, but there's enough options now. The build quality, the drive quality, service quality, all of it is subpar. The Model 3 is a zippy car but the lack of an instrument cluster is a deal breaker for me.

Tesla deserve all the credit for getting everyone else to wake up. But they are so so at making a car I actually want to drive.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The long term future of Tesla is a battery manufacturer and a charging network. Those are the two things they are good at. The cars themselves are quickly being beaten out by the larger players.

> The cars themselves are quickly being beaten out by the larger players Based on what exactly? Tesla cars are wildly popular in their segments. They have elite efficiency, high margin, they lead in costumer loyalty and costumer satisfaction ratings. Model Y is literally the most sold car in the world. What actual evidence are you basing these claims on? Tesla is making a huge amount of money because of vertical inte…

Keep in mind it was extremely common on HN to proclaim Tesla was going to go bankrupt, that the Model S would never be manufactured at any scale, that the Model 3 would fail and would also never be manufactured at great scale.

Sure Tesla has plenty of flaws and always have, and yet they remain ahead of the competition in what's going to be a multi-trillion dollar market (EVs) segment.

Tesla's primary business problem is that they only have one killer product, the Model 3 (meaning they're too easy to cripple if sales fall out from under that one thing). They massively screwed up on the truck, when they should have just made a normal EV truck with some Tesla touches (Elon's ego on Cybertruck cost them hundreds of billions of dollars in sales over the next decade; it will go down as one of the dumbest business mistakes in recorded history). The truck should have been their key diversification, especially in the huge US market for trucks. The truck segment should have been mainstream and borderline boring, yielding tens of billions of dollars in annual global sales. Instead it's going to be a mocked niche product that trails off rapidly in sales after the initial splash (assuming they actually bring the Cybertruck to market).

But if Tesla knew what they were doing, they would have bought a large chunk of Ford while the valuations were at peak mismatch (or all of it, via their hyper overvalued stock; de facto bribe the Ford family with a huge number to take the acquisition offer), electrified Ford's truck lineup in a long-term partnership, and yielded epic scale profit from it for decades to come.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#327

Tesla fans before 2023: The Supercharger network is just supplemental! Most charging is done at home, range anxiety is BS! Tesla fans after 2023: The Supercharger is our most important competitive advantage! Any automaker not adapting our standard will die!

I truly abhor strawman comments such as this. They offer nothing other than a false sense of superiority. They are like buzzing mosquitos on a hike: annoying, distracting, and useless.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#328
post #112

I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…

> a better standard in North America Is a global standard not better for everyone in the long run?

It doesn’t really matter. Nobody brings their car overseas, and the costs for having different chargers in Europe and NA are negligible.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about how this is affects Tesla is "compared to what?" Compared to the historic status quo where there were no other chargers, and Tesla had exclusive access to a large-ish proprietary charging network, it looks like Tesla giving up their advantage, and seems bad. But the forward-looking status quo was going to be a gigantic network of CCS chargers that makes Tesla's proprietary network look small, with eve…

My friend who is not an EV driver got stuck with an EV rental (Bolt) for a semi-rural trip and boy was that a ton of drama. I’ve been thinking hard about an EV myself and now I’m looking at PHEVs instead. I’ve gotten a crash course in EV charging around here and it’s not good. Level 2 chargers are not for spontaneous trips and level 1 chargers are fucking pointless. It estimated two and a half days to charge from 40-…

You just need a good EV. PHEV is like buying a typewriter with a screen when everyone is already buying computers. I have had a pure EV since 2019 and never had charging problems like that and I drive a lot. I have the 14-50 at home and it charges quickly, every morning I’m at 80% charge. Spend $100 to get an electrician to fix that for you.

Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs

#330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing about how this is affects Tesla is "compared to what?" Compared to the historic status quo where there were no other chargers, and Tesla had exclusive access to a large-ish proprietary charging network, it looks like Tesla giving up their advantage, and seems bad. But the forward-looking status quo was going to be a gigantic network of CCS chargers that makes Tesla's proprietary network look small, with eve…

My friend who is not an EV driver got stuck with an EV rental (Bolt) for a semi-rural trip and boy was that a ton of drama. I’ve been thinking hard about an EV myself and now I’m looking at PHEVs instead. I’ve gotten a crash course in EV charging around here and it’s not good. Level 2 chargers are not for spontaneous trips and level 1 chargers are fucking pointless. It estimated two and a half days to charge from 40-…

If your commute is less than 100 miles, you have nothing to worry, if you get a proper charger at home. Owned Tesla for 3.5 years with 60 mile commute, it has been very nice.
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