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Modafinil and Startups

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Re: Modafinil and Startups

#91

Post by JamesBell »

Two points I didn't see about modafinil that I've found: 1) There's a long lag from the I take it until the time it kicks in. I read somewhere that it has to be processed by the liver once and the results of that are what actually has an effect. The upshot is, if I take it after about 11am, I will find myself awake after 1am. So for me it's early or not at all.

2) As a hangover/sleepless night cure. Modafinil is a great "fixer" for a slow d-r-a-g of a day. By noon I usually have forgotten I started the day hungover.

I generally take 50mg for the mildest effect, or sometimes 100mg if the need is greater.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#92

Post by commanda »

dtf wrote: post #81

I threw my last pack away last year, due to the emergence of a nasty side effect. I'd used it to power through a few insane projects, and had what I would call a decent "honeymoon period": get up at 4am, brain so groggy it was hard to tie my shoelaces, pop 100mg and within 30 minutes I'd be hyper-awake, clear headed and have laser sharp focus. The euphoria he mentions was nothing mild for me either, it really wasn't…

This is exactly what I felt when I was taking Adderall when I was about 25. I chose to stop taking it after a few months because I just couldn't handle the sense of impending doom, and at times fear, which would strike every day around 7pm.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#93

Post by xibernetik »

dtf wrote: post #81

I threw my last pack away last year, due to the emergence of a nasty side effect. I'd used it to power through a few insane projects, and had what I would call a decent "honeymoon period": get up at 4am, brain so groggy it was hard to tie my shoelaces, pop 100mg and within 30 minutes I'd be hyper-awake, clear headed and have laser sharp focus. The euphoria he mentions was nothing mild for me either, it really wasn't…

I've had a very similar negative reaction at times in waves maybe an hour long, though the general sense of doom tended to condense into very specific ideas: the sort of thoughts you might find when watching a horror movie, except applied to real life and impossible to ignore. As a result, despite having a legitimate prescription, I'm very sparing in my use.

I don't get the euphoria and I avoid using it while seriously sleep deprived - I despise the feeling of my physical body needing sleep. For reference, aside from caffeine and alcohol, it's the only (mind-altering) drug I've ever taken, so it's not due to interactions outside that sphere.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#94

Post by peter_l_downs »

georgieporgie wrote: post #79
peter_l_downs wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Coincidentally, I'm about to go off to college, where I'm sure I'll be sorely tempted by "intelligence enhancers" like Modafinil. Even in my high school there is rampant abuse of Adderall and other stimulants. Thanks for the timely discussion of their effects - although I'm not predisposed towards taking them, I've now got some good information on why there's no need to do so.

in my high school there is rampant abuse of Adderall and other stimulants Recreationally, or for study?

Both.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#95

Post by throwaway12315 »

I have taken 100-400mg of Modafinil daily for about 10 years.

I happen to have my 23andme results (thanks for the tip, tene!) and it looks like I'm rs4680(A;A). Despite what the paper in CPT says, it does have a significant effect on my alertness.

The comments about procrastination and focus all sound familiar to me. So do the comments about addiction: sometimes I'll forget to take it and if I don't have any because I forget to pack it while travelling I don't feel an urge to do anything about it. I only have a few things to add to what's been said already:

1) Modafinil is not a substitute for sleep for me. I've gone without sleep for days while using it, and I do suffer from the effects of sleep deprivation. I just don't notice that I'm suffering from them. The best way to describe it is that I am alert and thinking, but I am missing half my IQ points and don't realize it unless I'm particularly mindful about how I am feeling. I'm great at driving, working out, the boring parts of reverse engineering firmware, and other mindless repetitive physical tasks, though. A few years ago I decided to spend a lot of time at the gym and was performing at superhuman levels: it's just not normal for a 5'8" guy to feel happy about running 6 minute miles at 4 AM on no sleep. When I did that on no sleep I kept losing my keys and phone, though...

2) Modafinil significantly increases my ability to get out of bed in the morning. I've never taken a sick day since I started using it. If I don't get enough sleep I still zone out a little during the day, but it makes it so much more pleasant to get out of bed and go through my morning routine if I'm missing sleep. I'm certainly in better shape because I have the energy to go work out, as I mentioned.

3) I'm quickly approaching the point where I'll have been on Modafinil for more than 50% of my life, and as far as I can tell there have been no long-term side effects. My partner is a MD and although at first she couldn't believe that it wasn't permanently screwing something up, she's come to accept that Modafinil seems to be pretty safe in my case.

4) Despite what others have said about Modafinil affecting their creative thinking, I have no problems assimilating entirely new concepts or doing other abstract thinking while using the drug.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#96

Post by peter_l_downs »

georgieporgie wrote: post #84

Stuff I've tried over the course of the last year or so: 1) Caffeine pills, 200mg each, around $4 at Walmart. I wrote about this before. The effects are far superior to coffee. More consistent, no intestinal distress. I could take one upon waking, and another around lunchtime. I haven't been taking them daily for a few months now, and my daytime productivity is certainly lower. 2) Piracetam with Choline Citrate and,…

I haven't tried any of the pills you've mentioned, but I'll second #4. I run all summer and fall, but take the winter off. I find that I'm much less happy and more irritable when I'm not exercising regularly. I'm sure there are a billion [1] studies showing that exercise is good for your mental health, but I'm lazy and don't feel like googling for one.

[1] An exaggeration.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#97

Post by CamperBob »

johnyzee wrote: post #10

Trying to hack the body like this is the equivalent of fiddling around with some extremely complex code that you have no idea what does (in production, on an infinitely complex system with zero unit test coverage).

To some extent that's true for all drugs (as well as all foods). It's like poking random numbers into memory and restarting your Asteroids game to see if you get 65,536 extra ships, or if the process locks up.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#98

Post by georgieporgie »

peter_l_downs wrote: post #96
georgieporgie wrote: post #84

Stuff I've tried over the course of the last year or so: 1) Caffeine pills, 200mg each, around $4 at Walmart. I wrote about this before. The effects are far superior to coffee. More consistent, no intestinal distress. I could take one upon waking, and another around lunchtime. I haven't been taking them daily for a few months now, and my daytime productivity is certainly lower. 2) Piracetam with Choline Citrate and,…

I haven't tried any of the pills you've mentioned, but I'll second #4. I run all summer and fall, but take the winter off. I find that I'm much less happy and more irritable when I'm not exercising regularly. I'm sure there are a billion [1] studies showing that exercise is good for your mental health, but I'm lazy and don't feel like googling for one. [1] An exaggeration.

The thing that I found particularly interesting about my cardio experiment is that I'm already more fit and active than average. Every other day (barring the occasional extra rest day), I'm at the gym, doing 60 - 90 minutes of free weights. My heart rate is often 140 - 170 when I come off a set, and I pretty much jump on the next set when my heart rate hits 125. By the definitions I found, that is technically cardio, yet doing 30 minutes of daily bike riding still seemed to have an effect.

I've also found that having a bright light helps, particularly in the darkest of the Pacific Northwest winter months.

I started taking 2,000iu of vitamin D upon waking, too. This may or may not help with wakefulness and may or may not assist in combating depression.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#99

Post by Tossrock »

JulianMorrison wrote: post #6
w1ntermute wrote: post #3

Is it just me, or does using mind-altering substances to get through one's daily schedule seem like it crosses the line? I'm always a little baffled when people sacrifice their health for work - it's a very bad decision in the long term. You can always find another job, but once you damage your health, you may never get it back.

Err, nope, coffee is pretty popular. The differences between coffee and modafinil are: coffee tastes better, modafinil does the same job for longer with less side effects.

Actually, modafinil is practically tasteless, which I would say is objectively better than the bitter taste of coffee. Of course, it's possible to train yourself to enjoy that bitter taste through operant conditioning, but it's not really a "better" taste.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#100

Post by astral303 »

georgieporgie wrote: post #98
peter_l_downs wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't tried any of the pills you've mentioned, but I'll second #4. I run all summer and fall, but take the winter off. I find that I'm much less happy and more irritable when I'm not exercising regularly. I'm sure there are a billion [1] studies showing that exercise is good for your mental health, but I'm lazy and don't feel like googling for one. [1] An exaggeration.

The thing that I found particularly interesting about my cardio experiment is that I'm already more fit and active than average. Every other day (barring the occasional extra rest day), I'm at the gym, doing 60 - 90 minutes of free weights. My heart rate is often 140 - 170 when I come off a set, and I pretty much jump on the next set when my heart rate hits 125. By the definitions I found, that is technically cardio,…

An experienced running coach has recently opined that spending an hour in the gym doing strength is about equivalent to 10 minutes of running.

Part of the reasoning could be the activation of different energy systems. Lifting activates the anaerobic system, whereas sustained cardio activates the aerobic system and dips into the anaerobic only at higher levels of effort. The anaerobic system transmits something like 30+ ATP (energy currency of the body), whereas aerobic is 2 ATP [1]. That might explain why you experience this difference.

[1] http://ksuweb.kennesaw.edu/~vking2/PhotosynthesisandCellular...

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