Won’t the chargers get overcrowded?
Tesla adds about a million Tesla's to the road every year in North America. Supporting a few hundred thousand non-Tesla's will have less impact than adding a million Tesla's.
Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
161–170 of 761 posts
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#162Earlier quoted context omitted.
Since EvGO and Chargepoint seem to be public companies, I looked up their financial statements. It's not pretty. They are all bleeding money and that's with machines that people complain are down a lot. Chargepoint is in a slightly better spot because their Level 2 chargers seem to be somewhat better in the profitability department, but still losing tons of money. And that's not really surprising. If you look around…
> we assume $0.16/kwh electricity (residential rate here) EIA average for industrial electricity is ~$0.14/kWh. I know around here its not uncommon for industrial users to pay all the way down to ~$0.07/kWh, there's a good bit of difference depending on how far up the line the industrial user owns which varies the delivery cost a good bit. https://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.ph... I definitely a…
Industrial users also pay a demand charge based on the maximum current draw over the period; that can be significant.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#163I firmly don’t care which plug wins as long as there is _a_ standard… But with the wind blowing this way will there be an adapter for CCS vehicles already on the road? Or does one already exist?
There are adapters both ways.
CCS1 and CCS2 use the same communication protocol and Tesla adopted it for NACS in the North America market because they had to for the European market.
Older NA Tesla's can get a body module upgrade to support their CCS to NACS adapter.
It sounds like the adapter will be used at least initially to restrict which cars can use Superchargers. I would imagine this is partially due to the lack of payment terminals but also to prevent untested configurations of EVs.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#164Earlier quoted context omitted.
NACS and CCS currently use different protocols. Older Tesla's require a retrofit to support CCS1. ( https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter ). However, I suspect a big part of the reason why this flurry of announcements is happening now is that Tesla is upgrading their superchargers to be able to speak the CCS protocol over NACS.
NACS uses CCS protocols, see Page 11 of https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/HXVNIC_North_American_Cha... For DC charging, communication between the EV and EVSE shall be power line communication over the control pilot line as depicted in DIN 70121.
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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#165I’m glad there finally seems to be a push to a better standard in North America. I’m really curious how this affects Teslas market share though going forward. Their supercharger network is why we continue with them despite countless other issues. It’s their biggest moat as far as I’m concerned. Now I have significantly more options, and my next car will not be a Tesla. I’m sure I’m not alone in that. Is the brand nam…
As a business it seems smarter to grow the pie and increase your revenues even if Tesla's marketshare decreases. Even through the lens of hating Elon Musk and wanting alternatives, most people have no strong feelings at all. Price and availability largely dictates what Tesla will sell. I have not seen any data Elon's antics change sales volumes.
Smart or not, it's definitely Tesla's strategy. They have an explicit goal of 20% of the vehicle market. They don't care what their share of the EV market is, they want 20% of the combined market.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#166I'm not an EV user, so I need some clarification. Is NACS actually a better connector? Or is it just more abundant at the moment? Technology Connections did a deep dive on CCS and it seems like it's a more flexible connector with a truly open standard. The argument for NACS I've seen is that it's a little sleeker (does this really matter all that much?) and it's already on Tesla's supercharger network.
Having used both, NACS is more compact, so both the port on the car and the end of the cable are significantly smaller than CCS. The cable itself is also lighter and more "usable" than CCS. At least at the newest V3 superchargers, the NACS cable is so much more flexible and easier to manage. Munro Live took both connectors apart and did an overview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmjofPpThWU
> the NACS cable is so much more flexible and easier to manage.
Nothing stops CCS from using smaller cables. Tesla tends to have cables which aren't rated for as long of lives with the plans on replacing them more often. Most CCS dispenser manufacturers chose beefier cables which were supposedly rated for longer lives, but environmental factors and people (ab)using the cables seems to lead to those cables not having anywhere near their rated lives.
I've seen some 50kW CCS chargers with downright flimsy cables, much smaller and thinner than most Tesla cables.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#167Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is called Title Case and part of a lot of (American?) news organizations style guides. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_case It confuses me, a non-native English speaker, a lot too. I hate it.
Me too. They should just use the German way. Nomens are big and other Words are small.
I've never understood the point of this. This capitalization standard carries no information. How many nouns in German can also be other parts of speech? It is easy to learn, but how useful is it?
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#168Earlier quoted context omitted.
Is NACS superior to CCS in any way apart from install base? I was under the impression NACS was inferior.
Suggest to watch the Technology Connections video. TL;DW: it’s fine, it has some advantages and no real disadvantages. It’s annoying that the US will once again be out of sync with the rest of the world, that’s the main drawback.
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Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#169Offtopic: could people that write news titles please learn how to capitalize words? Or can we make sure that at AI will know it, when most of news are written by it? Took me 3 tries to parse the title. "Rivian Joins Forces" - is that name of an organization? - "with Tesla"... nope, that doesn't make sense. "Rivan Joins forces" (somebody to do something), syntax error got "with". "Rivan joins forces with Tesla" - yay!…
A personal target I have is that I compare my intelligence to an LLM by seeing if it correctly interprets things people say that I have trouble with. In this way, I can see where the LLMs are beating me. I had no trouble with this headline but had I had trouble, I would conclude that ChatGPT-3.5 is smarter than I am on headline interpretation, because it interprets the headline concordant with the story first time.
In this model, I would judge myself as less able to extract information from other humans than ChatGPT. I believe that the ability to extract signal is a good marker of intelligence. Low-spec intelligences often require high-precision: they are more like formal language parsers than natural language parsers and are therefore less sophisticated.
Re: Rivian embraces Tesla's charging standard for EVs
#170Earlier quoted context omitted.
NACS and CCS currently use different protocols. Older Tesla's require a retrofit to support CCS1. ( https://shop.tesla.com/en_ca/product/ccs-combo-1-adapter ). However, I suspect a big part of the reason why this flurry of announcements is happening now is that Tesla is upgrading their superchargers to be able to speak the CCS protocol over NACS.
NACS uses CCS protocols, see Page 11 of https://tesla-cdn.thron.com/static/HXVNIC_North_American_Cha... For DC charging, communication between the EV and EVSE shall be power line communication over the control pilot line as depicted in DIN 70121.
Hmmm, we need a good name for the older Tesla plugs that aren't NACS compliant. When I said "current NACS", that's what I was referring to. I should have been more explicit.
Tesla vehicles built before ~2020 do not and can not speak CCS without a retrofit.