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Modafinil and Startups

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51–60 of 134 posts

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#51
For anyone that's interested, when he says "online pharmacy", what that really means (at least in the US), is:

A. An Overseas pseudo-legal (at best) operation that will send you the drugs discreetly in an envelope. The success rate of getting it through US Customs will be good as long as it's not shipped from a hot spot and does not come in a package.

B. A Mexican drug dealing operation that smuggles the drugs across the boarder to a US stash house, which then takes orders online, receives payment for the order via MoneyGram, and ships the orders out from within the US overnight by FedEx to your door steps.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#52

Is it just me, or does using mind-altering substances to get through one's daily schedule seem like it crosses the line? I'm always a little baffled when people sacrifice their health for work - it's a very bad decision in the long term. You can always find another job, but once you damage your health, you may never get it back.

Everything you put in your body is a mind-altering substance. Food, coffee, beer, etc all provide different chemicals to your brain. I used to have a similar mindset to yours. I didn't use caffeine and didn't even like taking something for headaches.

When I looked at it from another perspective I changed my mind. It's irrational to not take something if the benefits exceed costs. If you can take something, with benefits that outweigh the side effects, why wouldn't you? Everything has costs and benefits. Of course most people will underestimate risk and overestimate benefits so you have to do this carefully.

Caffeine is a perfect example. When taken in proper dosage caffeine is beneficial with almost no side effects. The biggest side effect is addiction which isn't much of a problem with its availability and is easy to overcome.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#53

I have taken 200mg of Modafinil daily for more than 5 years. Before it, I could go to sleep just about anywhere and just about any time. I could easily sleep for 12 to 14 hours a day if I let myself. When I had a work commute of about an hour and a half, I would have to pull over, sometimes four or five times, during the afternoon drive home to take cat naps because I couldn't keep my eyes open. It didn't matter how…

I found out I'm a slow caffeine metabolizer.

I like coffee, a lot. I need a few sips to feel like a person in the morning, but that's it (totally a mental/addiction thing). I enjoy the taste and experience of the beverage, but it doesn't do anything for me.

I found out its in my DNA. Genetically, I'm a slow caffeine metabolizer. I can probably stand to lose 10-20lbs, so that extra weight is affecting my metabolic rate too. I don't exercise enough, so that slows it down more as well.

For a few reasons I don't feel the need to try Modafinil, but an alternative to caffeine would probably work wonders for other people like me.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#54
post #13

The thing I find most interesting about Modafinil is how consistent the stories are about how people feel (and work) when they take it. Everyone talks of extreme focus, but perhaps a loss of judgement about what tasks are actually important. I don't have any particular conclusions about that - I just find it really interesting.

I've read a lot about modafinil and I think your observations are selection bias. It may improve focus more than caffeine but not like amphetamines or other drugs used to treat ADHD. Judgement may be impaired when taking any stimulant. If it's something you're aware of it's not hard to work around.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#55

For anyone that's interested, when he says "online pharmacy", what that really means (at least in the US), is: A. An Overseas pseudo-legal (at best) operation that will send you the drugs discreetly in an envelope. The success rate of getting it through US Customs will be good as long as it's not shipped from a hot spot and does not come in a package. B. A Mexican drug dealing operation that smuggles the drugs across…

C. The Silk Road.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#56
post #38

Your description of the subjective effects of modafinil sound almost identical to those of Adderall (d-amphetamine). Adderall has a very well established short-term safety profile in therapeutic doses, but long-term use, especially at moderate to high doses, can lead to severe dependency and a host of health problems, in a very similar manner to cocaine. If what you say is true that Modafinil doesn't have the high ad…

It's not that similar to Adderall or other amphetamines. The mechanism of action is different. There is some overlap in effect but it's quite different. Amphetamines will provide intense focus and are generally short lived. Modafinil will provide improved focus and alertness and is long lived. The focus is nowhere near as intense.

Adderall and cocaine are even less similar. Cocaine is purely a psychological addiction. Amphetamines have both psychological and physical addiction. Modafinil has little to no addiction. Over time your body will get more efficient at breaking down modafinil down so you may need to increase dose but that's it. There are studies done over years but there aren't any extremely long term ones yet.

While still illegal schedule IV is nothing like schedule II. LE generally doesn't care that much about IV. I've read about schedule IV drugs being opened by customs and allowed through. Think of IV as less than being caught with a joint.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#57

Is it just me, or does using mind-altering substances to get through one's daily schedule seem like it crosses the line? I'm always a little baffled when people sacrifice their health for work - it's a very bad decision in the long term. You can always find another job, but once you damage your health, you may never get it back.

Do you consume sugar, vitamins or oxygen? Have you ever inhaled Nitrogen Oxide or maybe stood near a car while its engine was on? Nevermind. This concern of long term health is reducible to: what effect does taking this action have on my probability of living for X more years at present functioning or better. Notice that merely being alive negatively impacts this, while when you are alive positively impacts the odds. Being sedentary and sitting for most of your day affects the probability very negatively. Is sitting most of your day worse for you than taking modafinil daily? I suspect being sedentary is far worse for you.

Or another, we can compare the effects of modafinil with getting into a car on a similar basis. With some basic knowledge of brain chemistry, claimed effects of the drug, understanding of placebo effect (~occurs in 1 in 3 or consider: drug OR Expectation/placebo Inferior to Drug AND Expectation), the drug's statistics, poor methodology in medical statistics and years of drug availability you can form a decent prior.

Based on my prior, taking modafinil is certainly not more lethal or less healthy than getting in a car and being near its fumes. So fear of health effects without any reasonable basis are not a rational argument to me. The supposed strong adverse effects? This is an argument for more understanding of how metabolisms and bodies differ, I have a confirmed strong allergy to nuts for example. Peanuts are much more dangerous to me than modafinil.

Yet I do not take modafinil. Not based on some unsubstantiated reverence for default biochemistry but instead on reasoned arguments. Its effects seem like they would impact creative thinking negatively. Furthermore, it is expensive and does not appear to have superior effects beyond being less addictive, a smoother delivery and a safer high dose cardiovascular profile than caffeine [1]. That is, modafinil does not appear to be any better at keeping you awake or focused than caffeine.

Similarly, I do not take caffeine because of its dependency forming nature and while it appears to boost working memory, enough studies indicate it antagonizes hippocampal function [2] to motivate me to minimize caffeine intake to every few weeks or less, as necessary. The mechanisms for modafinil are different so we can't expect all effects to be the same as caffeine. But it too seems to effect some improvement in working memory - most noticeable when the individual is lower performing [3] but according to [4] modafinil does show some negative effects on long term memory processes situated at the prefrontal cortex. in rats. Remember though, just because something appears in a medical journal doesn't make it true or accurate, especially when done on animal models or cell cultures. Nonetheless, the benefits in contrast with monetary costs and minute risks make modafinil not worth it and caffeine a very irregular thing for me.

Notice that I am not attacking your reluctance to take modafinil but rather, your opinion seems to be based on a nebulous definition of what a drug is and an assumption that the brain's architecture is optimal and any attempt to alter it will definitely be negative.

See also - Sulbutiamine. A vitamin B1 dimer.

[1] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11862356

[2] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19217915

[3] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15221200

[4] http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20800665

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#58
I bought pack of generic modafinil (do not remember exact brand). It was manufactured in India.

It had no effect on me. I tried up to 4 100mg pills at once (i.e. I started with half table one day and each day increasing dosage). Although, I also suspect it might be a fake, since I was buying from some online "pharmacy". Provigil both too expensive and require doctor's approval.

Just found about piracetam, thanks to this thread. just ordered :)

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#59
My personal experiences with modafinil's effects are similar to the OP's. It increases my focus more than caffeine but not like Adderall. It completely clears away brain fog and eliminates sleepiness. I find it lasts 6-8 hours for me, depending if I'm sleep deprived or not.

I found that if it's evening, I'm tired, and I take it that it may take up to 2 hours before my alertness improves. Normally it's about 1 hour.

Other than terrible smelling urine I don't notice any side effects.

Modafinil also seems to be synergistic with caffeine. I can take half the caffeine with the same or better effects.

Re: Modafinil and Startups

#60

I bought pack of generic modafinil (do not remember exact brand). It was manufactured in India. It had no effect on me. I tried up to 4 100mg pills at once (i.e. I started with half table one day and each day increasing dosage). Although, I also suspect it might be a fake, since I was buying from some online "pharmacy". Provigil both too expensive and require doctor's approval. Just found about piracetam, thanks to t…

Quality varies significantly between Indian manufacturers. Sun Pharma Modalert is a known quality brand.
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