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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#601
post #397

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brand new android phone cost me $50, no plan attached or anything like that. Granted, that was a steal but I've never paid more than ~ $300 for my phones and I use them for 3 to 4 years.

My wife and I use to called the cheap slow Android phones that we have our sons when they lost/damage their iPhone - “punishment phones”. They were so slow they were painful.

>They were so slow they were painful.

I agree, apple make old phones slow on purpose by software update, apple is evil

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#602

Things that made original cell phones not dumb: Removable batteries with aftermarket suppliers way less costly than factory originals. Small enough to fit in the pocket easily, or flip form for versatility. Each battery lasting over 2 weeks and you could stockpile them for extended off-grid use. External battery chargers included. Tactile keypads. Physical connection for external antenna for better reception, as well…

> it was too bad people settled for that. Power users / tech steeped people like us will care a lot about the original cell phones’ antennas, tactile keypads. But 90% of the public don’t care. And the 10% who are people like us cannot continue using our niche products with no interoperability with iOS/Android, if we expect to keep up with the rest of the society that has now been accustomed to a sealed slab. Basicall…

Good to see your thoughtful and realistic response.

But I will still point to the way the two surviving OS's are not so interoperable with each other, and a sealed slab is mainly not just the embodiment of planned obsolescence, but disposable electronics by intention. Apple really doubled down as an anti-reuse/anti-recycling company along the lines of Microsoft's influence.

The experience from horses to cars is a good amount of accurate hindsight, and it was only the early adopters who got cars for quite some time. I would say some equivalence is like with the older technology horse the rider could go places the car never will be able to, but the car did get people where most wanted to go and that's where the roads were because people were already going there.

What really did it was getting there faster and the stimulating feeling of speed like never before.

With the iPhone it was bigger more flexible screen real estate and the stimulating ability to "watch TV" anytime on a device you were going to carry all the time anyway.

Once the mainstream saw what the early adopters were doing there was nothing but envy until they were doing it themselves.

Maybe one thing to agree about settling for is the initial neglect for the environmental effect of both transitions.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#603

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sorry but what? I replaced my previous mobile (OnePlus3) because of the battery - after about 4-5 years it became quite difficult to get through the day on single charge, and in the world where everything is getting more "electronic" (tickets!) it became a problem. Yes, id didn't have newest 5G, but guess what - my new phone has it yet I don't have coverage. Storage could wear out but are you really doing load IO…

That's a sample of one but we're talking about millions in different countries here and a bit longer timescale than here. I don't think phones could last say 10 years with battery swaps and nothing else.

ditto, but right now people switch phones every two years, if not every year...

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#604

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to know what point you're making, although your aggression is (hopefully) a sign of how extremely you care about this topic. I agree that patents are odd here, but the solution isn't to patch in more power to bureaucrats over the top of the other power. You seem to be saying this at the end as well, so, as I say, I'm not sure what point you're making. But your excitement on this topic is appreciated.

> I agree that patents are odd here, but the solution isn't to patch in more power to bureaucrats over the top of the other power. What is confusing here? The entire structure is already a perversion of the natural world. If we did not have our government, and the rules that it enforces (those "bureaucrats" you don't seem to like), then there is no "invention" to be nullified. They already have this power. They enfor…

> If the bureaucrats want your idea - they will take it, because they are the only thing stopping them from doing so.

This is possible, but the power to enforce patents is in the courts, and not in the patent bureaucracy. Having a single group that can invalidate parents on a whim is different to that.

And patents can be useful, although I don't have many examples. SawStop is one, though, where even a 20 year patent doesn't seem to have been long enough to establish a successful business before incumbents swoop in. Patents like that are pro-competition in that scenario. Otherwise why bother starting a new business when your R&D effort can just be taken advantage of by someone else as soon as you hit on the answer?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#605
post #601

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife and I use to called the cheap slow Android phones that we have our sons when they lost/damage their iPhone - “punishment phones”. They were so slow they were painful.

>They were so slow they were painful. I agree, apple make old phones slow on purpose by software update, apple is evil

Not this old canard.

The only time Apple made “an old phone slow” was when the battery was too old and couldn’t operate at peak without causing the phone to shut off.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#606
post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They aren’t exactly things you carry around in your pocket. http://www.n2ltd.com/intermec-introduces-latest-rugged-mobil...

Better search more appropriate examples, all the way back to first models. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5210 They can even fit into a pocket!

And every article says they were “splash proof” which is a lot different than dropping a phone in the water or forgetting to take it out of your pocket when you jump into a pool.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#607
post #562

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well you don’t have to do anything. Spend $69 - $89 and let an Apple certified repair company to replace it and if they do something wrong, it’s covered under warranty.

Ah, there's nothing better than being granted the opportunity to burn money.

You bought an iphone and worried about spending $30 extra dollars?

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#608

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but it is enough that many are unwilling to spend that kind of money on a 5 year old phone, versus for $35, it's a low enough amount that many might just stick with their phone and replace the battery, leading to less e-waste. Are there people that find spending $99 on a battery replacement expensive that are really making the decision to replace their whole phone for 5-10x that amount?

Most people aren't spending 5-10x that amount on buying a new phone. Global average selling price of all smartphones was $317 in 2021. Excluding iPhones (only Androids), in 2019, the global average selling price was $269. https://www.statista.com/statistics/788557/global-average-se... And that's the average, likely brought up drastically by the sale of extremely expensive phones. Apple and Samsung's flagships start a…

I still don't understand the assertion that someone who bought an iPhone (used or otherwise) and finds $100 expensive is throwing away said iPhone and generating e-waste when every other option is both more expensive and riskier. Any "new" used phone is going to come with a battery of undetermined age and quality as well as its own set of potential problems and failures, where as a replacement for your existing phone is a known cost in a known (as much as can be with solid state devices) set of problems.

Certainly I can see them buying an iFixit battery and trying themselves, or paying a 3rd party vendor and taking a risk on that. But there's just no line of logic that makes any sense to me that says "$100 to replace my iPhone battery is expensive, better throw it away and spend even more money to get someone else's second hand phone of unknown state"

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#609

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most people aren't spending 5-10x that amount on buying a new phone. Global average selling price of all smartphones was $317 in 2021. Excluding iPhones (only Androids), in 2019, the global average selling price was $269. https://www.statista.com/statistics/788557/global-average-se... And that's the average, likely brought up drastically by the sale of extremely expensive phones. Apple and Samsung's flagships start a…

I still don't understand the assertion that someone who bought an iPhone (used or otherwise) and finds $100 expensive is throwing away said iPhone and generating e-waste when every other option is both more expensive and riskier. Any "new" used phone is going to come with a battery of undetermined age and quality as well as its own set of potential problems and failures, where as a replacement for your existing phone…

> Any "new" used phone is going to come with a battery of undetermined age and quality as well as its own set of potential problems and failures

Not necessarily, as I can't imagine most refurb/used sales worldwide come from individual sellers; most of them are probably sold by businesses, which sometimes provide a warranty and return policy on their used products. Right now, on the Amazon Renewed Store, the unlocked Galaxy S20 FE 5G 128GB is $187.50. Amazon states,

> The product is refurbished, fully functional, and in excellent condition. Backed by the 90-day Amazon Renewed Guarantee.

> - This pre-owned product has been professionally inspected, tested and cleaned by Amazon qualified vendors.

> - This product is in "Excellent condition". The screen and body show no signs of cosmetic damage visible from 12 inches away.

> - This product will have a battery that exceeds 80% capacity relative to new.

> ...

> - This product is eligible for a replacement or refund within 90-days of receipt if it does not work as expected.

from https://www.amazon.com/Samsung-Galaxy-128GB-Cloud-Mint/dp/B0...

So if 2.5 months into using that phone, you feel it doesn't function well, you can return it.

Even for sales from individuals, Swappa (an online user-to-user marketplace for used tech) requires you to list the battery health percentage on iPhones if it's below 80%. They also require that everything functions well and even is in good cosmetic condition. Their standard for "fair" is rather high.

Outside of pawn shops, I imagine most brick and mortar stores aren't selling phones in poor condition. In the US, the phone carriers, Best Buy, and even Apple themselves sell refurb phones, and they don't want to hurt their reputation by selling poor quality products. Apple in particular has high standards for their refurb phones:

> All refurbished iPhone models come with a new battery, new outer shell, are backed by a one-year warranty, have free delivery and returns, and also include:

> - Full functional testing, genuine Apple part replacements (if necessary), and a thorough cleaning

> - The original Operating System or a more recent version

> - All refurbished devices are repackaged in a brand new box with all accessories and cables

I guess anecdotally my iPhone 6S as of recently hasn't been performing well. Would a battery replacement help it? Maybe. But that's not certain (it could be that modern apps are so bloated that its 2015 hardware can't handle it despite most of those apps having essentially 0 new meaningful features in the past 8 years) and I'm surely not going to spend $100 on a nearly 8 year old phone to find out. I've replaced the battery myself before, but last time I broke the screen in the process (something that wouldn't have happened if the phone had a removable back), so I'm hesitant to do it again (I was being careful, and have done plenty of phone repairs at this point, but more than anything the ribbon cables break extremely easily.) But if I could just pop off the back and put a new battery in, I'd be willing to give it a try for $35. But instead I'll probably just deal with it for a little while and then get a different used or refurb phone with better battery health than my own device.

EDIT: another example of an affordable refurb phone: iPhone SE (2nd gen) is $147 in the US from the Amazon Renewed Store and has all the same benefits Amazon guarantees for the Galaxy S20 FE. So for $47 more than a battery replacement, you can essentially try out a "new" used phone for 80 days and determine whether you want to stick with it or return it.

https://www.amazon.com/Apple-iPhone-SE-64GB-Red/

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#610

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"If you can't see the glaring problems there then there's no hope for you...." Correct, but easily solved if the tax were to be based on license sales numbers and income. Small/poor license owners would pay almost nothing whereas the big players would pay plenty.

How does that resolve the issue of IP squatting that is in question? If there's no income the fee is negligible, permitting the rights holder to squat on them for next to nothing and prevent the use of the otherwise abandoned IP by the public....

That's a separate and in some circumstances a serious problem.

For instance, an art gallery takes a photo of an artwork that's out of copyright for reference/insurance and (a) doesn't allow photos in the gallery and (b) the photo which is copyright isn't on sale (as it wasn't intended for that purpose). So the out of copyright artwork is locked up from reproduction.

Variations on this theme are a problem with galleries and museums worldwide.

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