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Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

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Re: Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

#71

Post by jraph »

bananabiscuit wrote: post #43
burke wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a claim by an organization on ownership of a phrase used by humans in common speech. That doesn’t mean it’s what people mean when they say it.

Don’t forget who you’re arguing with on this website. Most people here earn their livelihood by commercializing huge amounts of work done for free by others. They definitely have a horse in this race.

What is this conspiracy theory now?

The requirement to allow selling is also true for free software, and RMS had user rights in mind, not commercial interests.

Re: Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

#72

Post by jraph »

burke wrote: post #35
dontlaugh wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a clear widely accepted definition https://opensource.org/osd/

This is a claim by an organization on ownership of a phrase used by humans in common speech. That doesn’t mean it’s what people mean when they say it.

> common speech

In which situation outside the developer world people use this phrase… to mean something other than FLOSS?

Open source is not common speech. It's jargon. Jargon that's becoming popular outside the tech world because of the advocacy around open source and free software going on.

Re: Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

#73

Post by jraph »

gfosco wrote: post #55
Pet_Ant wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, because the OSI doesn’t recognize it as such.

I don't recognize the OSI as any authority to define words.

This is fine, but you don't get to decide what people mean when they say "open source", and usually they mean this definition.

Re: Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

#74

Post by jraph »

rendaw wrote: post #42
mepian wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Source-available" is already the established term for this kind of software, not sure what you are talking about: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Source-available_software

"Free and open source (FOSS)" is another established term, for the opposite, so I'm not sure this proves anything.

It's not the opposite. Source-available is a requirement of FLOSS (or FOSS).

FOSS is "source-available" + other guarantees.

Re: Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

#75

Post by contrarian1234 »

mordae wrote: post #10

Not open source. > DevilutionX is made publicly available and released under the Sustainable Use License (see LICENSE) > The source code in this repository is for non-commercial use only. If you use the source code you may not charge others for access to it or any derivative work thereof.

I feel this issue will never die till someone finds new catchy terms...

Maybe the core problem is that the atnonym of open is closed. And closed source definitely means you can't see the source

You'd be hard pressed to convince anyone a source available project is "closed source "

Re: Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

#76

Post by KnobbleMcKnees »

doctorpangloss wrote: post #64
aerio wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The apps are generally high quality because of the limited device pool. It makes testing and making sure everything works vastly easier across the range of devices when you don't have literally thousands of possible devices to account for. Then there's the monopolistic and highly curated app store.

In my experience as a former employee at one of the largest mobile game developers, the reason iOS apps are high quality is because the users are richer and deliver higher revenue.

You're both right

Re: Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

#77

Post by boredhedgehog »

pgeorgi wrote: post #69
littlestymaar wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't be able to bring it to my software club and study it with kids, because that would be using it in a commercial setting. Would you mind elaborating on this? How is a software club a commercial setting?

"Commercial activity" can be as benign as "There are membership fees", "There's a soda machine in the corner that takes coins", "I'm doing it to brush up my CV" (increasing future income potential), or "There are ads on the website". As such, any of these might trigger the "only for ... non-commercial ... use" clause. So folks generally just don't sweat it.

The Sustainable Use License doesn't seem to contain a blanket ban on commercial use. Here's what it says on limitations:

"You may use or modify the software only for your own internal business purposes or for non-commercial or personal use. You may distribute the software or provide it to others only if you do so free of charge for non-commercial purposes. You may not alter, remove, or obscure any licensing, copyright, or other notices of the licensor in the software. Any use of the licensor’s trademarks is subject to applicable law."

Studying the software in a commercial setting seems to be permitted.

Re: Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

#78

Post by oliverbennett »

undersuit wrote: post #51
Solvency wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Similar to this is there any example of someone building an entirely "new game" by changing the front-end client and assets so heavily that it literally becomes a different story/world/lure/characters? Essentially a total facade reskin?

League of Legends, Dota 2, and Heroes of Newerth were all directly inspired from a Warcraft III map mod, Defense of the Ancients. Multiplayer Online Battle Arenas, MOBAs, are now an entire genre.

Of the 10 most popular multiplayer games in 2023[0] seven of them owe their core mechanics to mods / flashes of brilliance from a handful of amateurs.

A more or less correct history of their origins:

- Four of the games on that list are battle royale games, which started life as a somewhat popular Minecraft mod and really took off with "Battle Royale" - a mod of "Dayz" which itself is a mod of "ARMA II". It's mods all the way down.

- Two are tactical FPS games, which owe a huge chunk of their mechanics to "Team Fortress" a Quake mod and "Counter Strike" a Half-Life mod.

- One is a MOBA, which started life as "DotA", a Warcraft III mod.

Of the other three, one is Minecraft. Created by a solo dev, and I expect its moddable nature has helped its multiplayer popularity significantly.

One is Roblox. Created by two devs, and is itself a game creation system.

The final one is Genshin Impact - something of a an outlier in terms of team size and genre origins.

[0] https://twinfinite.net/features/most-played-games

Re: Open source Diablo 1 engine – DevilutionX 1.5.0 released

#80

Post by littlestymaar »

pgeorgi wrote: post #69
littlestymaar wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I wouldn't be able to bring it to my software club and study it with kids, because that would be using it in a commercial setting. Would you mind elaborating on this? How is a software club a commercial setting?

"Commercial activity" can be as benign as "There are membership fees", "There's a soda machine in the corner that takes coins", "I'm doing it to brush up my CV" (increasing future income potential), or "There are ads on the website". As such, any of these might trigger the "only for ... non-commercial ... use" clause. So folks generally just don't sweat it.

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