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Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

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Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#101

Post by delecti »

danielheath wrote: post #100
User23 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disco Elysium, which I haven't gotten around to playing yet so I have no personal opinion, is the only contender I can think of. The only other game I can think of with that level of narrative craft is the Marathon series, which isn't an RPG, but rather an FPS. I'm kind of surprised Marathon 4 hasn't been kickstarted yet. There is definitely a whole lot of money on the table there, as the System Shock remake proves.

Tides of Torment, perhaps?

Do you mean the spiritual successor "Torment: Tides of Numenera"?

I thought it was very good, but also seemed to be trying too hard to do "torment again" and IMO felt rather forced in the process. Also, I find the Ninth World setting to be a bit too deliberately odd, whereas Planescape feels more naturally odd. I'm also looking at PST with huge nostalgia goggles (first played it in my early teens), but played TToN around age 30, so it's far from a fair comparison.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#102

Post by intelVISA »

ksaun wrote: post #74
User23 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Disco Elysium, which I haven't gotten around to playing yet so I have no personal opinion, is the only contender I can think of. The only other game I can think of with that level of narrative craft is the Marathon series, which isn't an RPG, but rather an FPS. I'm kind of surprised Marathon 4 hasn't been kickstarted yet. There is definitely a whole lot of money on the table there, as the System Shock remake proves.

(FWIW, the studio with which I'm affiliated ( https://digimancygames.com ) is focused on narrative-driven CRPGs in the vein of games like PS:T and Disco Elysium. We have assembled three of the Disco Elysium writers and other talent in this space. We have an internal project, but are seeking publishing partners or investors.)

Interesting, I wish you well as we sorely need more RPGs in that vein... are you writing an engine in-house?

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#103

Post by ksaun »

intelVISA wrote: post #102
ksaun wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(FWIW, the studio with which I'm affiliated ( https://digimancygames.com ) is focused on narrative-driven CRPGs in the vein of games like PS:T and Disco Elysium. We have assembled three of the Disco Elysium writers and other talent in this space. We have an internal project, but are seeking publishing partners or investors.)

Interesting, I wish you well as we sorely need more RPGs in that vein... are you writing an engine in-house?

Thanks. :) Gosh, no. (Too much additional work for the benefit, for us.) We've used Unity, but we expect to transition to Unreal in the future as Unity's direction in recent years unfortunately has been ominous.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#104

Post by pmoriarty »

xanathar wrote: post #62
fbdab103 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do not get to lay down such criticism without offering alternative suggestions. What is your top-tier classic or modern cRPG? Edit: Not a fanboy defensiveness or anything. Just rare to see the contrarian opinion on this, and genuinely curious. Other than the trash combat, I really enjoyed my time with PST.

I think all things considered BG2 aged better - it had less exciting plot, but it balanced better all the aspects. That said, I would nudge Pillars of Eternity and Pathfinder: Kingmaker above PST as they have an equally good amount of story, NPC interaction, they balance combat better. Pillars II, Wrath of the Righteous and Tides of Numenera, otoh, are below the PST bar in my opinion but ymmv depending on tastes. On…

I found the first Pillars of Eternity game incredibly boring, and actually liked the 2nd one more... though I also grew bored of it before too long. BG2 was ok, but I don't think any of these games can hold a candle to PS:T in terms of writing.

I haven't tried Pathfinder: Kingmaker, because it has an enormous number of very negative reviews, so I'm surprised you'd put it in the same league as PS:T.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#105

Post by aerio »

bourneavent wrote: post #77
smcl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then a few sections later > Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes. Slightly different times :)

This language is unconventional for business even in the 90s. Additionally men wouldn't talk this way in front of women in Any time. The difference now is it's less culturally accepted to talk like this even in casual situations even when just among men. Plenty women objectify men by wealth and status and they refer to men this way even publicly. The cultural change is mostly one sided, skewed more towards not offend…

This shows an inherent lack of understanding. Some men, starved of affection, feel nice when treated similarwly to women. I'd they have their ass grabbed, or they get car called, of whatever - it feels like a nice confidence boost.

However, it entirely overlooks the fact that for many women, this behavior is non-stop, and comes with the very important difference that men are inherently much stronger than women, which means that they constantly feel a lot more threatened and unsafe than men do in the same situations.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#106

Post by WastingMyTime89 »

Certhas wrote: post #34
WastingMyTime89 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People have rose tinted glasses when they talk about old games. PS:T was a cut above the other cRPGs of its time mainly because it had adequate writing and an engaging story when most other cRPGs were trite. Still everything after Raven’s maze is just average until the ending where it gets good again and the gameplay outside of dialogue is frankly uninteresting. It’s in a lot of way like the original Dark Soul whose…

Talking about the gameplay outside the dialogue is a bit silly though. Why people still love it are writing and plot. The mechanics were simply the bog standard mechanics of the day and don't matter much. Which games would you say have bested it in terms of writing/plot? I see a few but not very many really. Disco Elysium would be the first but that also stands alone in terms of quality. (That said, don't get to game…

How is it silly?

PS:T is a cRPGs not a visual novel. There is an actual game you have to play around the dialogues and this game is not particularly complex, engaging or even that fun as demonstrated by the rest of my comment lamenting the part of the game after Raven’s maze which is notorious for having lots of boring combats and less dialogue than the rest of the game.

People excuse the mechanics both because the plot was original and because they have forgotten as this part of the game is unremarkable. It still make for a less than stellar experience when you play it today.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#107

Post by caseysoftware »

j1elo wrote: post #3

What were the chances? I installed Planescape Torment last night, to play around a bit with it. It's been sitting in my "to-try" list for at least 15 years! I'm however not very fond of having to sit down on my desk to play games with keyboard and mouse, though... I already spend enough of my life sitting in the exact same position for work. That alone discourages me from playing several old games I own (and not so o…

X-Com 1 & 2 on ipad are good too. Sure, you don't have the same flexibility as on the computer but it's nice NOT to be tied to the same device in the same place.

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#108

Post by bourneavent »

waveBidder wrote: post #92
bourneavent wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because they call you "Daddy" in the bedroom. There's actually sort of a real reason for this. In the traditional monogamous or even polygamous relationship throughout human history it's usually the Male taking care of the female. Women when seeking a relationship are sort of searching for a caretaker that has sort of father like qualities of having enough resources to take care of them, taking a dominant role…

Poppycock. until recently, in agricultural societies, families (usually men) were choosing families to cement relationships with by trading children. what the woman (and frequently the men) wanted was mostly irrelevant. see https://scholars-stage.org/against-human-sexual-selection/ If "daddy" is a thing, it's because of frequent age differences, since pregnancy is extremely hard on your body (fatality rates as high a…

[dead]

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#109

Post by bourneavent »

aerio wrote: post #105
bourneavent wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This language is unconventional for business even in the 90s. Additionally men wouldn't talk this way in front of women in Any time. The difference now is it's less culturally accepted to talk like this even in casual situations even when just among men. Plenty women objectify men by wealth and status and they refer to men this way even publicly. The cultural change is mostly one sided, skewed more towards not offend…

This shows an inherent lack of understanding. Some men, starved of affection, feel nice when treated similarwly to women. I'd they have their ass grabbed, or they get car called, of whatever - it feels like a nice confidence boost. However, it entirely overlooks the fact that for many women, this behavior is non-stop , and comes with the very important difference that men are inherently much stronger than women, whic…

[dead]

Re: Planescape: Torment pitch document (1997) [pdf]

#110

Post by smcl »

badpun wrote: post #73
smcl wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then a few sections later > Babes: Think babes. Then think more babes. Slightly different times :)

I don't think so. The language used in 2023 may be different, but the intent is the same: "Give them nudity, give them sex, give them violence. This is what will make us money".

As the post I was replying to said - at least they were honest with their intent. They knew their audience and set out to target them. But there are far more people playing games nowadays, so when you're planning a game nowadays you'd probably not zero in on that specific audience.
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