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Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

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Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#71

Post by mrweasel »

einpoklum wrote: post #40
hknmtt wrote: post #33

remember, the police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it. they don't care who they punish as long as they can add your number to their statistics. they are NOT your friends. that's just childhood brainwashing.

The police' main purpose is to protect the social order internally, by enforcing social relations (foremost being property and the authority of state institutions). As for punishing crime - technically, the police is not supposed to decide whether crimes have been committed, nor to meet out out punishment for them. Really is a different thing, of course - but even then, the punishment is for police-undesirable behavi…

Not sure what the English term is, but Denmark operates with the "three separations of power". Parliament makes the laws, the police enforce them and the judicial system punished. The police, for good and bad, is never suppose to decide whether or not a law is right or wrong, how it's punished and to what extend.

If the police have become a punishing force, or even make the rules, then something has gone very wrong. Now even in civilized societies things sometimes goes wrong, e.g. the parliament provides police with too broad a framework to operate within, in an attempt to be "tough on crime" or attempt to dictate the framework of the judicial system to ensure a minimum sentencing. It's just rare that the police force itself is to blame. Blame mostly falls back to the people writing the laws.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#72

Post by tharne »

sneak wrote: post #49
gumby wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“No one likes a cop until they need one”. Cops are not inherently your foe, but that does not imply that they are in any way inherently your friend, even when you are part of the “in group”. In the US the relatively recent shift to use of the term “law enforcement” both reflects and drives a self-destructive nature in the broad culture. Your insightful point, “The police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prev…

> Cops are not inherently your foe From a game theoretical POV this is false; no good can come from speaking to them, and only bad can.

> From a game theoretical POV this is false;

Except we're not talking about game theory here, we're talking about reality.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#73

Post by gymbeaux »

netule wrote: post #50
AlecSchueler wrote: post #47

A friend of mine recently had quite a bad experience asking the police for help with directions as he was traveling through the Netherlands. He was trying to figure out where he was using the map on a bus stop and approached a nearby police car to ask for assistance. They demanded his ID which he was not carrying at the time. He explained that it was in his bag at the place where he was staying and they said he neede…

It's strange, but you must be able to identify yourself if you're over the age of 14 [1] in The Netherlands. Having lived in the US for 20 years now, this also seems a bit draconian to me, but I didn't think much of it while growing up over there. [1]: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/paspoort-en-identit...

I could give a damn about 2A/the right to bear arms, but if I had to ID myself to police for asking for directions…

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#75

Post by WirelessGigabit »

a2tech wrote: post #57
netule wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange, but you must be able to identify yourself if you're over the age of 14 [1] in The Netherlands. Having lived in the US for 20 years now, this also seems a bit draconian to me, but I didn't think much of it while growing up over there. [1]: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/paspoort-en-identit...

That would definitely be surprising for most Americans. Many of us (like my wife) never carry id unless they plan on driving.

Even in the US it's weird. I arrived on a passport + visa. No requirement to carry it. Got a driver license. No requirement to carry that either, unless I'm driving. But now that I have a Green Card I need to carry it at all times. At least until I get citizenship.

I live in a state that allows for having my driver license on my phone.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#76

Post by WheatMillington »

paulpauper wrote: post #67
yieldcrv wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its interesting how generic “travel” advice is incompatible with so many countries the generic advice is “leave your passport locked at the hotel so you dont get it stolen by pickpockets” but also “never not have your passport on you because the local government wants to check it at any time” how do you all reconcile that on a day to day basis?

Traveling to foreign lands entails different rules and customs, which means new possible risks. Too many people think that their values or rules are universal. I think this is a major cognitive blind spot. It's like traveling to foreign lands with their different rules and customs is not such a smart idea, overall. Error on the side of caution.

That is a bleak point of view.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#77

Post by dudefeliciano »

netule wrote: post #50
AlecSchueler wrote: post #47

A friend of mine recently had quite a bad experience asking the police for help with directions as he was traveling through the Netherlands. He was trying to figure out where he was using the map on a bus stop and approached a nearby police car to ask for assistance. They demanded his ID which he was not carrying at the time. He explained that it was in his bag at the place where he was staying and they said he neede…

It's strange, but you must be able to identify yourself if you're over the age of 14 [1] in The Netherlands. Having lived in the US for 20 years now, this also seems a bit draconian to me, but I didn't think much of it while growing up over there. [1]: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/paspoort-en-identit...

i would agree if someone is suspected of committing or witnessing a crime but to require ID for simply asking directions, and then getting arrested, seems like exactly the kind of overreach that gives a bad image to cops.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#78

Post by mrweasel »

Johnny555 wrote: post #8
wiseowise wrote: post #5

[flagged]

Is there any country where it's advantageous to speak more than required to the police? (I'm sure there are some countries where you're required to speak more than in the USA where you're legally allowed not to speak at all without a lawyer)

> Is there any country where it's advantageous to speak more than required to the police

I think it's more a "why would it be problematic?" and not so much if it's advantageous. Unless you're guilty, but then it's normally advantageous in the sense that your punishment often reduced when you admit guilt.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#79

Post by AlecSchueler »

paulpauper wrote: post #67
yieldcrv wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Its interesting how generic “travel” advice is incompatible with so many countries the generic advice is “leave your passport locked at the hotel so you dont get it stolen by pickpockets” but also “never not have your passport on you because the local government wants to check it at any time” how do you all reconcile that on a day to day basis?

Traveling to foreign lands entails different rules and customs, which means new possible risks. Too many people think that their values or rules are universal. I think this is a major cognitive blind spot. It's like traveling to foreign lands with their different rules and customs is not such a smart idea, overall. Error on the side of caution.

I think we're just in this strange zone here in the EU, where we all enjoy freedom of movement but the penalties for not understanding the subtle differences between states can be quite a shock if you're caught out.

Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]

#80

Post by savvo »

yieldcrv wrote: post #61
netule wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's strange, but you must be able to identify yourself if you're over the age of 14 [1] in The Netherlands. Having lived in the US for 20 years now, this also seems a bit draconian to me, but I didn't think much of it while growing up over there. [1]: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/paspoort-en-identit...

Its interesting how generic “travel” advice is incompatible with so many countries the generic advice is “leave your passport locked at the hotel so you dont get it stolen by pickpockets” but also “never not have your passport on you because the local government wants to check it at any time” how do you all reconcile that on a day to day basis?

Your passport is not the only form of ID; a driving licence is easily kept in a wallet, pocket, money belt, …
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