As an extremely relevant and related topic, it's Shut the Fuck Up Friday [1], time to review the script!
Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
41–50 of 246 posts
Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
#42Haha. First time submitting a link (and it blowing up, it’s on page 4!). I’m in wonder how I did unleash all this stream of comments, as my eyes are fixed on the karma point, reloading the page, watching it increase like it never did before, despising myself for that at the same time for falling to the gamification and thinking it’s time to nuke my HN account.
Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
#43Earlier quoted context omitted.
While you have the right to remain silent, I remember reading somewhere that you have to actively invoke that right (by stating something like "I invoke my 5th amendment right to remain silent") for your silence to be considered an invocation of that right, and not merely suspicious behavior, an implicit admission of guilt, or obstruction of justice. This is actually reprehensible, since invoking a right should mean…
> Another topic that everybody should know about is juror nullification. Jurors who are aware of jury nullification are routinely dismissed.
I saw this happen in a real trial.
It's more complicated than just saying "jury nullification." You have to explain your beliefs.
Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
#44remember, the police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it. they don't care who they punish as long as they can add your number to their statistics. they are NOT your friends. that's just childhood brainwashing.
The USA police is a bit of an exception here, being overly militarized, not kept in check by judges and politicians, and historically having a side job of fugitive slave catchers.
Around the world, the core job of the police is more: Restore the public peace. They can forgive transgressions in public if you demonstrate further disturbance of peace will cease.
They have to maintain a reasonable level of fairness, or they get overrun by vigilantes. But as long as the illusion of fairness holds good enough, they can and will crush powerless people in the wheels of justice.
Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
#45remember, the police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it. they don't care who they punish as long as they can add your number to their statistics. they are NOT your friends. that's just childhood brainwashing.
“No one likes a cop until they need one”. Cops are not inherently your foe, but that does not imply that they are in any way inherently your friend, even when you are part of the “in group”.
In the US the relatively recent shift to use of the term “law enforcement” both reflects and drives a self-destructive nature in the broad culture.
Your insightful point, “The police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it” has several implications.
First is that even if you have a positive view of the cops (and if you are not in an “out group” you should) you still should follow this advice. If you’re not chatting with your next door neighbor the cop at a bbq, what you are is an unpleasant barrier to getting their job done with a minimum of hassle. Like you think of Jira or Confluence.
Another implication is to understand that their role, in cultural norm, in who it attracts to the job, and simply the cumulative impact of what they are exposed to, drives what I will euphemistically call “destructive impact”. We need cops like we need the weather, but that doesn’t mean we don’t take steps to deal with the destructive force of storms, and even to minimize storm generation.
Unfortunately the US is in a phase where they think the more brutality the better. In that the cops correctly reflect what they are asked to do.
Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
#46Earlier quoted context omitted.
> lacking in the US educational system In most other countries, cops can ask for your ID and basic questions and detain you if you are not complying.
they most certainly cannot detain you without a cause. in the context of what you wrote, if you do not have your id, which is not mandatory to carry, they can detain you for 48 hours in order to establish your identity, but if they fail they have to let you go.
You agree that they can detain you for something that isn't mandatory.
Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
#47A friend of mine recently had quite a bad experience asking the police for help with directions as he was traveling through the Netherlands.
He was trying to figure out where he was using the map on a bus stop and approached a nearby police car to ask for assistance.
They demanded his ID which he was not carrying at the time. He explained that it was in his bag at the place where he was staying and they said he needed to be able to identify himself, so they arrested him on the spot and he was not free again until the following morning. As a result he missed a ferry and had to spend the money booking another one.
Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
#48Note cops are trained to assume that cagey people could be guilty. (1) I wonder if this guy wants to make more work for himself and people in his profession, and (2) Black and White people might get very different results from this and other advice.
While you have the right to remain silent, I remember reading somewhere that you have to actively invoke that right (by stating something like "I invoke my 5th amendment right to remain silent") for your silence to be considered an invocation of that right, and not merely suspicious behavior, an implicit admission of guilt, or obstruction of justice. This is actually reprehensible, since invoking a right should mean…
>by stating something like "I invoke my 5th amendment right to remain silent"
This needs to be rather structured as well as the cops can ignore your statement unless it has a proper syntax and names the 5th element directly. Example: "give me a lawyer dog" doesn't cut it (https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/true-crime/wp/2017/11/02...)
Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
#49remember, the police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prevent it. they don't care who they punish as long as they can add your number to their statistics. they are NOT your friends. that's just childhood brainwashing.
“No one likes a cop until they need one”. Cops are not inherently your foe, but that does not imply that they are in any way inherently your friend, even when you are part of the “in group”. In the US the relatively recent shift to use of the term “law enforcement” both reflects and drives a self-destructive nature in the broad culture. Your insightful point, “The police's sole purpose is to punish crime, not to prev…
> Cops are not inherently your foe
From a game theoretical POV this is false; no good can come from speaking to them, and only bad can.
Re: Don’t Talk to Police (2012) [video]
#50A friend of mine recently had quite a bad experience asking the police for help with directions as he was traveling through the Netherlands. He was trying to figure out where he was using the map on a bus stop and approached a nearby police car to ask for assistance. They demanded his ID which he was not carrying at the time. He explained that it was in his bag at the place where he was staying and they said he neede…
It's strange, but you must be able to identify yourself if you're over the age of 14 [1] in The Netherlands. Having lived in the US for 20 years now, this also seems a bit draconian to me, but I didn't think much of it while growing up over there.
[1]: https://www.rijksoverheid.nl/onderwerpen/paspoort-en-identit...