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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#411
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

My GoPro's are waterproof yet they have removable batteries. It's not impossible, but it does mean they have to be every so slightly thicker.

Waterproof with an external case.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#412
post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IP permissions, i.e., copyrights, are not natural rights, they are instead government "grants" of protection. And protection granted by government decree can also be taken away by government decree. So no "permission" to release would be necessary if government's modified ther copyright laws to withdraw their granted protections after some "event" occurred. The bigger problem is not the permission, it is actually fin…

You're right, but all EU states are members of WIPO, and their governments can't take away protection of foreign-owned IP without violating their international obligations.

So violate them they should.

Realistically, I'm sure there's a loophole they can leverage to achieve these. The EU is a major party to the WIPO and other members will likely be open to "renegotiating" if the alternative is the EU leaving completely rendering the WIPO pointless. The US pulled this stunt many times with other international orgs and treaties.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#413
"Many consumers were vocal about the change but over time, most accepted it as the new norm and moved on. "

I guess. The fact is you really don't have a choice anymore, so what are you going to do? I'm not sure that counts as 'acceptance', more like 'resignation'.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#414

Feels like, as per usual, people haven’t read the source text.[1] In order to ensure that portable batteries that were incorporated into appliances are subject to separate collection, treatment and high quality recycling once those appliances become waste, provisions to ensure the removability and replaceability of batteries in such appliances are necessary. Consumer safety should be ensured, in line with Union law a…

Exactly, the subheading 'Sleek slabs could soon be a thing of the past' is bogus.

This is not a requirement to have 'cartridge' user-replaceable batteries, just that you should be able to open the phone and remove the battery (not much emphasis on actually replacing it) with easily available tools, rather than heatguns, solvents, proprietary glass-pullers etc.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the owners/companies no longer exist, then I would think the IP should be free by default. Perhaps that's another law to work on... I think I have even more elegant solution. All IP should be subject to a tax (or maintenance fee or whatever you want to call it). As soon as the IP owner fails to pay the tax, IP falls to public domain irrevocably. The actual structure of the tax can be subject to debate. I would p…

Under your model any author would immediately lose protections unless they could afford the fees.... If you can't see the glaring problems there then there's no hope for you.... But hopefully you immediately recognize that it hurts the least advantaged the greatest while also providing a mechanism for anticompetitive behavior under the guise of following your precept (make the fee high enough and only established aut…

"If you can't see the glaring problems there then there's no hope for you...."

Correct, but easily solved if the tax were to be based on license sales numbers and income. Small/poor license owners would pay almost nothing whereas the big players would pay plenty.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#416

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

I’ve made a similar suggestion on HN before. Have a minimum support period for internet connected devices, and once you stop updating after that minimum, you’re required to unlock the hardware and open source everything.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#417
post #400

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"IP permissions, i.e., copyrights, are not natural rights, they are instead government "grants" of protection" There's no such thing as a natural right, period. They're all imaginary creations of humans.

Nobody cares about what pmoriarty1 thinks of a word when the legal and political worlds have well-established meanings for those words; meanings that indicate the parent poster is correct in stating IP rights are not "natural" in genesis. There is a recent movement trying to redefine them as such, led by moneyed interests that would obviously stand to profit from such arguments; but legal history is very clear: IP wa…

Yes natural rights are those the constitution recognizes as coming from a Creator and those shall not be infringed.

Copyright and patent are not among those. The Constitution provides that congress can grant "for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries"

"Limited times" could be defined by congress to "expire" under whatever circumstances they choose.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#418
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're right, but all EU states are members of WIPO, and their governments can't take away protection of foreign-owned IP without violating their international obligations.

So violate them they should. Realistically, I'm sure there's a loophole they can leverage to achieve these. The EU is a major party to the WIPO and other members will likely be open to "renegotiating" if the alternative is the EU leaving completely rendering the WIPO pointless. The US pulled this stunt many times with other international orgs and treaties.

> I'm sure there's a loophole

"We would never think about taking your IP but if you want to do business in this region, you must agree to voluntarily open-source all drivers after the product is no longer maintained."

Or:

"Of course you don't have to agree to anything but if you stop supporting the product and don't open source the drivers, consumers can obtain money damages for their devices becoming inoperable. "

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#419
post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I paid $99 to get my iPhone XS Max's battery replaced directly by Apple a few weeks back. That phone is almost 5 years old. I really don't think that $99 is unreasonable.

Compared to $25 for a battery replacement that you could do yourself if it was replaceable kinda makes it seem unreasonable.

Affordable replacements are all good and important to have, with a caveat.

Lithium-ion batteries at the $25 pricepoint come from a single well known place of manufacturing and are usually of the unknown quality. They may or may not be safe to use, and there have been precendents of self-ignition and self-explosion to the point that some airlines have banned or have attempted to ban the Li-ion batteries in the carry-on.

A branded $99 battery (all brands) is not 100% immune to the same problems but occurences are much more rare, and typically each such failed specimen is taken back to the manufacturer for an investigation. The only forensic process in existence for failed $25 batteries is called «throw it into the dumpster».

That said, a better QA process by the phone manufacturer does make the $99 battery reasonable. If all suppliers of $25 batteries could guarantee the same rigid QA process for the $25 batteries they supply, that would make the $99 batteries unreasonable.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is misguided, even though Apple is going to implement USB-C on the iPhone for the EU market, they're still not going to offer it in the US. It's naive to think big companies act in any interest besides their own unless forced.

If it drives an uptick in sales in the EU you can count on it being eventually implemented for customers in the US and elsewhere too. Though it's even possible Apple knows it will help sell the devices better - at least initially, but they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem.

> they prefer to have users more firmly locked into the Apple ecosystem.

Every time someone says shit like "locked into the Apple ecosystem", god kills a kitten. Lots of people switch back and forth between iOS and Android.

Nobody's going to go for USB-C on their iPhones if they can get Lightning ports. The Lightning port is far superior mechanically (both more durable and easier to clean from debris) and unlike most Android phones, not attached to the mainboard - so it can be replaced if damaged.

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