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European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

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Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#401

Post by rhaway84773 »

unglaublich wrote: post #7

The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…

No it’s both.

The EU is ensuring the cell phone companies start by fixing at least one issue. They can then move on to the other.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#402

Post by roenxi »

landemva wrote: post #396
roenxi wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is this really [0] the most [1] important issue [2] that the EU should be focusing [3] on? Going by HN traffic, it appears that what the EU is for is to redesign the iPhone to get the details right that techies disagree with Applle on. We live in extreme times with some remarkable challenges - the EU is wasting bandwidth on this triviality. And it isn't a phone manufacturer, it is probably not going to make phones ch…

>> We live in extreme times I thought fear-driven hyperbole ended with the expiry of covid lockdowns. On to the next end of the world story.

If these are normal times, then we really must question what the hell the EU is doing as part of its normal operations (hint: see the headline at the top of this web page). There are a lot of urgent problems to deal with and political bandwidth is being spent on an obsession by politicians and/or bureaucrats who think they have better design chops than Apple, world's premier category-defining phone designer.

It'd be stupid in the good times. It is still stupid in the current times. Let Apple do what they want and focus on keeping people warm, safe and with a roof over their head - all things that are at risk right now. Spend some time on diplomacy trying to calm the re-arming armies down. In Germany the AfD has gone from nothing to nearly 20% in the polls over the last decade; something is really badly wrong with "normal" in Europe to get that sort of political realignment.

Exchangeable batteries are not going to help.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#403

Post by rhaway84773 »

danpalmer wrote: post #284
jklinger410 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the policies are pretty well informed. I do think USB-C was a huge problem, and I don't think it was coming in a few years. I'm not skeptical of replaceable batteries. I think the policy that forces them to be removable on top of working with 3rd party manufacturers is a good idea. I don't think replaceable batteries or USB-C requirements restrict the industries ability to move forward. Edit: You can continue…

Parent commenter, and sure it was opinion, but based in good reasoning. USB-C wasn't the problem, MFi was. The rumours are that Apple's USB-C implementation will be locked down in similar ways, accessory manufacturers will still need to pay Apple to create certified accessories, and data transfer speeds are going to be restricted to Lightning speeds. USB-C everything is nice, but no non-techies I know like it because…

MFI may be THE problem. But we will never know because you can’t even plug in non Apple stuff in the phone because they use a proprietary connector.

Once Apple is required to use USB-C and then uses software to block non-MFI connections then the EU will (a) take them to court for trying to undermine the spirit of the legislation (b) if they lose in court pass a new law requiring them to prevent blocking non MFI connections (although they will probably allow them to display scary warning messages).

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#404

Post by rhaway84773 »

charcircuit wrote: post #232
JohnFen wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I really don't think that $99 is unreasonable. I do.

Luxury products have luxury repair costs

John Gruber also does this a lot. Compared iPhones to luxury goods like an Hermes bag, or even locked down consoles like Playstationd and XBoxes and wonders why, for example, Apple should be prevented from locking down their App Store but Sony and Microsoft are not.

But it’s absolutely not a legitimate comparison. An Hermes bag, or a game console are very specialized devices. A smartphone is almost a necessity to live a modern life these days.

Especially if you step out of the U.S. to more developing countries, where many people don’t own computers, or have email addresses. Everything they do, from basic transactions, to government IDs, to receiving govt benefits, etc happens on the phone.

It’s absolutely legitimate for consumers to have different expectations for such essential computing devices, and for governments to step in when the providers of these devices are acting against their citizens’ interests.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#405

Post by M2Ys4U »

gok wrote: post #296
jrm4 wrote: post #143

Just broadly, let me just echo my full throated support for regulation in this space. Forget the vast majority of the goofy "innovation" arguments I hear, the fact that 3 family cell phones, 2 laptops, Steam Deck, Nintendo Switch, and Oculus can all use the same charger makes insanely more sense that what we were doing before.

So you're really happy that there is regulation requiring what the market already did on its own?

Except the marked did not do that on its own.

The EU gave the industry an ultimatum in 2009: Adopt a common charger voluntarily or we'll regulate to force you to do so. Almost all manufacturers did, first with micro-USB before moving over to USB-C.

Eventually, because Apple decided not to play well with others, they had to follow through and regulate.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#406

Post by rahimnathwani »

pwg wrote: post #311
deelowe wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how this would work given modern supply chains. It can be extremely difficult to track down all of the owners of a particular IP and when you do, many of them may not even exist any longer making it near impossible to get any sort of permission to do something like this.

IP permissions, i.e., copyrights, are not natural rights, they are instead government "grants" of protection. And protection granted by government decree can also be taken away by government decree. So no "permission" to release would be necessary if government's modified ther copyright laws to withdraw their granted protections after some "event" occurred. The bigger problem is not the permission, it is actually fin…

You're right, but all EU states are members of WIPO, and their governments can't take away protection of foreign-owned IP without violating their international obligations.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#407

Post by okanat »

jdmichal wrote: post #283
NikolaNovak wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as we are sharing random opinions - my Samsung s2 and s5 were smaller thinner lighter than modern phones, with 3.5mm and replaceable battery and microsd card. And also had gps and wifi and phone. And were ip67 rated. Modern phones are going for sexy, that's all. They are large in every dimension but Impractically thin even though everybody adds another 3mm - 6mm of case anyway because they're sleek to the poi…

I agree with you. But also, to be fair, I'm pretty sure in that time phone bodies have transitioned from mostly plastic to mostly metal? I'm sure that has something to do with the weight, and I would guess that the metal shell is probably thicker too?

Why should they be thicker? Metals are resilient and strong. That's why we use them to build all sorts of stuff. I expect metal bodies to be thinner not thicker.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#408

Post by DropInIn »

beefield wrote: post #305
burntwater wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the owners/companies no longer exist, then I would think the IP should be free by default. Perhaps that's another law to work on...

> If the owners/companies no longer exist, then I would think the IP should be free by default. Perhaps that's another law to work on... I think I have even more elegant solution. All IP should be subject to a tax (or maintenance fee or whatever you want to call it). As soon as the IP owner fails to pay the tax, IP falls to public domain irrevocably. The actual structure of the tax can be subject to debate. I would p…

Under your model any author would immediately lose protections unless they could afford the fees....

If you can't see the glaring problems there then there's no hope for you....

But hopefully you immediately recognize that it hurts the least advantaged the greatest while also providing a mechanism for anticompetitive behavior under the guise of following your precept (make the fee high enough and only established authors/publishers can hold any copyright).

I really get the feeling you didn't think it through at all....

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#409

Post by DropInIn »

kmeisthax wrote: post #299
RobotToaster wrote: post #297

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK, if a company that owns intellectual property is dissolved, it becomes bona vacantia, and is officially property of the King. There's an entire government department dedicated to selling this property.

Wait, are you telling me that the UK actually has a halfway-decent solution to the orphan works problem!?

Only if you think that the IP remaining restricted rather than entering the public domain is a halfway decent solution.....

Arguably the American model of abandonment is better because abandoned IP doesn't actually result in any lawsuits, while that UK model is built to effectively encourage them.

Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries

#410

Post by megablast »

crabbone wrote: post #386
chongli wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it's batteries too. And water/dust/fluid ingress protection. Modern phones are sealed up pretty tight because users want them to be waterproof. This makes it very difficult to build in replaceable batteries!

What a bunch of crock. I have this new Nokia phone with a replaceable battery. It came with the pin you can use to open it (probably costs a few cents to manufacture, but if I had plenty of time to spare, I could've made one with a sturdy piece of plastic and sandpaper). The "mechanism" that keeps the back panel is just a piece of rubber, probably the same kind you find on hermetically sealing food containers. Also,…

> Also, very few people want their phones water-proof (what for?).

This is insane. So that rain doesn’t destroy it? So that spilling a drink doesn’t destroy it? So that dropping it in the toilet doesn’t destroy it?

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