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Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

pcmag.com

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Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#21

Post by panick21_ »

Juicyy wrote: post #17
dtagames wrote: post #11

How is this supposed to be believable from a company that has been bashing EVs for the last few years, doing everything they can to not make any, not promote them, and tell everyone that hybrids and ICE cars are better?

new CEO... new priorities. How is the top automaker on top? making good moves. Toyota has been correct that hybrids have been the best setup for the past 10 and next 10 years. Charging infra is catching up but a major bottleneck. Range too.

And yet Tesla is making almost the same profit as Toyota while also building up a gigantic service, sales and charging network. And investing in its own battery research, battery cells and its own battery production equipment.

Clearly they would have preferred to make some of that profit instead.

Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#22

Post by panick21_ »

fwungy wrote: post #20
Juicyy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

new CEO... new priorities. How is the top automaker on top? making good moves. Toyota has been correct that hybrids have been the best setup for the past 10 and next 10 years. Charging infra is catching up but a major bottleneck. Range too.

90 HEV = 6 PHEV = 1 BEV, 90:6:1 is Toyota's opinion. You get way more zero emission VMT using batteries in the HEV and PHEV role. A lot of BEVs are second or third cars for wealthy people who keep some sort of ICE as well. Those cars don't generate lots of VMT so their batteries are effectively being wasted.

HEV are just slightly more efficient, they still use 100% fossil fuels and still produce harmful emissions right in places where humans breath it.

In terms of 6 PHEV to 1 EV. This math comes with a lot of issues. First, it only works if people actually plug in their PHEV constantly and evince shows that they don't. And if you don't a PHEV is just a ICE vehicle with a shitty engine.

Plus the issue with PHEV is that they are expensive and complex to produce. Most car companies don't really like them because its hard to make any money on them and unlike with BEV there isn't a path to making money on them in the future. Specially as the ICE supply chain increasingly goes away.

Also even if Toyota thinks PHEV are good, there clearly is a large demand for BEV and Toyota is large enough that they could have done both just fine. Had they just invested in BEV instead of Hydrogen maybe they could be a leading player in HEV, PHEV and BEV.

Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#23

Post by fwungy »

panick21_ wrote: post #22
fwungy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90 HEV = 6 PHEV = 1 BEV, 90:6:1 is Toyota's opinion. You get way more zero emission VMT using batteries in the HEV and PHEV role. A lot of BEVs are second or third cars for wealthy people who keep some sort of ICE as well. Those cars don't generate lots of VMT so their batteries are effectively being wasted.

HEV are just slightly more efficient, they still use 100% fossil fuels and still produce harmful emissions right in places where humans breath it. In terms of 6 PHEV to 1 EV. This math comes with a lot of issues. First, it only works if people actually plug in their PHEV constantly and evince shows that they don't. And if you don't a PHEV is just a ICE vehicle with a shitty engine. Plus the issue with PHEV is that th…

Most of the energy for BEVs is produced from fossil fuels as well.

The Gorilla in the Room for fossil fuel emissions is Russia and OPEC. Are Russia and OPEC going to walk away from trillions of dollars of oil wealth?

Are the developing nations, like India, going to walk away from cheap ICE technologies, for more expensive and complex green technologies?

If not, all the aggressive switching by the OECD nations is for naught.

Toyota believes the developing world will still want ICEs for a long time, and the oil nations will still want to sell it.

Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#24

Post by ZeroGravitas »

fwungy wrote: post #20
Juicyy wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

new CEO... new priorities. How is the top automaker on top? making good moves. Toyota has been correct that hybrids have been the best setup for the past 10 and next 10 years. Charging infra is catching up but a major bottleneck. Range too.

90 HEV = 6 PHEV = 1 BEV, 90:6:1 is Toyota's opinion. You get way more zero emission VMT using batteries in the HEV and PHEV role. A lot of BEVs are second or third cars for wealthy people who keep some sort of ICE as well. Those cars don't generate lots of VMT so their batteries are effectively being wasted.

Unless those wealthy people are keeping their second car an unusually long time, while basically never driving it, they'll still get driven enough to recoup the up front carbon by a second or third owner.

Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#25

Post by rasz »

fwungy wrote: post #19
dtagames wrote: post #11

How is this supposed to be believable from a company that has been bashing EVs for the last few years, doing everything they can to not make any, not promote them, and tell everyone that hybrids and ICE cars are better?

Bashing != diverse opinion on the future role of BEV's in the vehicle mix.

diverse indeed https://electrek.co/2021/11/11/how-toyota-sneakily-spreads-a...

Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#26

Post by fwungy »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #24
fwungy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90 HEV = 6 PHEV = 1 BEV, 90:6:1 is Toyota's opinion. You get way more zero emission VMT using batteries in the HEV and PHEV role. A lot of BEVs are second or third cars for wealthy people who keep some sort of ICE as well. Those cars don't generate lots of VMT so their batteries are effectively being wasted.

Unless those wealthy people are keeping their second car an unusually long time, while basically never driving it, they'll still get driven enough to recoup the up front carbon by a second or third owner.

Yes, but the immediate impact on GHGs would be highly delayed from if that battery went into 90 HEVs.

Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#27

Post by Shaanie »

fwungy wrote: post #23
panick21_ wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HEV are just slightly more efficient, they still use 100% fossil fuels and still produce harmful emissions right in places where humans breath it. In terms of 6 PHEV to 1 EV. This math comes with a lot of issues. First, it only works if people actually plug in their PHEV constantly and evince shows that they don't. And if you don't a PHEV is just a ICE vehicle with a shitty engine. Plus the issue with PHEV is that th…

Most of the energy for BEVs is produced from fossil fuels as well. The Gorilla in the Room for fossil fuel emissions is Russia and OPEC. Are Russia and OPEC going to walk away from trillions of dollars of oil wealth? Are the developing nations, like India, going to walk away from cheap ICE technologies, for more expensive and complex green technologies? If not, all the aggressive switching by the OECD nations is for…

What's the car company revenue in the modern west vs India and other developing nations? I'm sure the developing world will still want ICE vehicles, but is that really where the money is?

Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#28

Post by fwungy »

Shaanie wrote: post #27
fwungy wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of the energy for BEVs is produced from fossil fuels as well. The Gorilla in the Room for fossil fuel emissions is Russia and OPEC. Are Russia and OPEC going to walk away from trillions of dollars of oil wealth? Are the developing nations, like India, going to walk away from cheap ICE technologies, for more expensive and complex green technologies? If not, all the aggressive switching by the OECD nations is for…

What's the car company revenue in the modern west vs India and other developing nations? I'm sure the developing world will still want ICE vehicles, but is that really where the money is?

There are billions of people in the developing world, China, India, Africa. Their income is low per capita, but the combined numbers are so high.

Petroleum fuels are easy to store and transport in low infrastructure environments. Many areas don't have strong electric grids, they don't have 24hr electricity, and even if they do it's not reliable. They rely on inexpensive two and three wheeled vehicles extensively, much more than developed nations.

Mobility is needed for them to feed themselves and progress. It isn't a "nice-to-have", it's a necessity for life. This isn't going to change anytime soon.

Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#29

Post by fwungy »

rasz wrote: post #25
fwungy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bashing != diverse opinion on the future role of BEV's in the vehicle mix.

diverse indeed https://electrek.co/2021/11/11/how-toyota-sneakily-spreads-a...

electrek.co is hardly an objective source.

Re: Toyota Touts Solid State EVs with 932-Mile Range, 10-Minute Charging by 2027

#30

Post by _hypx »

panick21_ wrote: post #22
fwungy wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

90 HEV = 6 PHEV = 1 BEV, 90:6:1 is Toyota's opinion. You get way more zero emission VMT using batteries in the HEV and PHEV role. A lot of BEVs are second or third cars for wealthy people who keep some sort of ICE as well. Those cars don't generate lots of VMT so their batteries are effectively being wasted.

HEV are just slightly more efficient, they still use 100% fossil fuels and still produce harmful emissions right in places where humans breath it. In terms of 6 PHEV to 1 EV. This math comes with a lot of issues. First, it only works if people actually plug in their PHEV constantly and evince shows that they don't. And if you don't a PHEV is just a ICE vehicle with a shitty engine. Plus the issue with PHEV is that th…

FCEVs are also EVs. People are simply being short-sighted about hydrogen. It will eventually replace BEVs.
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