Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts • Hacker News Board

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#131

Post by deprecative » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 12:08 AM UTC

b112 wrote: post #78

harimau777 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless you happen to already know of a specialized forum for a topic, it increasingly feels like Reddit and Wikipedia are the only parts of the internet that are still valuable; everything else is content farms or SEO spam. Even then I'm finding that Wikipedia's quality has dropped dramatically in recent years. As they become more zealous about only including "encyclopedic information", I'm increasingly finding pages…

everything else is content farms or SEO spam. No! The rest of the content is still there, loads of it. Google simple has stopped caring, no it is not "too hard", they just don't care enough. Case in point, Google even aids in crappy results, by aliasing your search terms, preventing precision, putting monetization above all else. Google sucks . SEO/spam is not worse, Google is, they know it, they do not care, because…

If the content is there but is not accessible (findable) then it may as well not be there. The Internet is content farms and SEO spam strictly because that's what can be found and accessed by the overwhelming majority of people. A non-indexed blog or site, or one that is sufficiently low on the results list, may as well not exist. It's like farting when you're home alone. You farted but nobody but you gets to enjoy the intestinal perfume.

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#132

Post by nashashmi » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 1:01 AM UTC

grumbel wrote: post #75

nashashmi wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do you get the cache?

Three dots next to the search result in Google, than in the "About this result" window there is a little "Cached" link right at the bottom. That "Cached" link is however missing for a lot of results.

That’s what I thought. It’s usually missing. Google 12 years ago used to be awesome. I have records of doing 30-40 searches a day. Now I do barely 12.

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#133

Post by kendalf89 » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 4:48 AM UTC

_8j50 wrote: post #41

acters wrote: post #2

This is the biggest benefit reddit provided to the user base. Google search has been lackluster and appending the word reddit allowed me to see plenty of good anecdotal and informative focused discussions without fluffing up the content for SEO.

I see people say this all the time, can you give me an example of your search queries? I never had to search reddit specific stuff but I do add 'github' all the time.

Whenever I need an opinion about a product or a service or comparing 2 similar things reddit is the only place I can consistently get real people with honest takes. Sometimes there are paid comments but it's usually pretty obvious and the experience is still miles better than a SEO fluff affiliate marketing blog that makes up 99% of Google searches.

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#134

Post by Cpoll » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 1:54 PM UTC

dolni wrote: post #99

Cpoll wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one wants their work stolen to train ais and then monetised for not even a mention in exchange. I feel (or perhaps hope ) the spirit of FOSS precludes the notion of "stealing." Besides, open source is no stranger to being monetized for the bare minimum mention required by whatever license.

What are you on about? A significant portion of open source software is GPL licensed. Taking GPL'd code and redistributing it without making the source available IS stealing. It is community code. If you want to use it, you have to give back. Otherwise pick something with a BSD or MIT license.

That's putting the cart before the horse. FSF's goal with GPL was to make all software free. Removing or sealing off projects is antithetical to that. That's what I'm getting at.

I should have been more clear, my point wasn't really on the semantics (and inexactitude) of "stealing." I can agree with your usage in this context.

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#135

Post by dolni » Thu, Jun 15, 2023, 10:02 PM UTC

j1elo wrote: post #127

dolni wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you on about? A significant portion of open source software is GPL licensed. Taking GPL'd code and redistributing it without making the source available IS stealing. It is community code. If you want to use it, you have to give back. Otherwise pick something with a BSD or MIT license.

> Taking GPL'd code and redistributing it without making the source available IS ... copyright infringement. Against which you might want to lawyer up and sue in court, if you feel litigious (and have have deep pockets to pay for the expenses, or someone else does it for you). But is nowhere as clear cut as stealing , like you mentioned.

It is stealing in the same way that pirating software is stealing. No more or less than that.

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#136

Post by dredmorbius » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 2:13 AM UTC

Fyrezerk wrote: post #80

xkbarkar wrote: post #73

I dont think I have ever got a quality search result by appending reddit. Cant for the life of me figure out how HN users find useful results there. chatgpt has improved search for me by orders of magnitude. Especially since google has started to border on useless. Bur searching reddit? Meh. Not for technical stuff at least. Niche high quality subs may point me in the right direction. Like r/ponds for example. Wonder…

I challenge you to provide me a better resource than reddit for finding reliable product reviews and discussions for just about anything you can buy.

Consumer Reports: https://www.consumerreports.org/>

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#137

Post by cptMayhem » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 3:39 AM UTC

chatmasta wrote: post #119

arcanemachiner wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, no thanks. Those old threads contain some of the only remaining quality content for like half of my queries.

Yeah but the point is that the subreddit blackout means you can't actually view the threads. The best you can do is hope that Google Cache has a readable version of it. And the longer the blackout goes on, the more likely it is that the results will be purged from the SERPs anyway, since they're now just an error page instead of relevant content.

I've been using web archive to open reddit links. It's a bit of a hassle, but it's often less of a hassle than trying to find that information somewhere else.

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#138

Post by reportgunner » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 8:39 AM UTC

Fyrezerk wrote: post #123

reportgunner wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

4chan general threads. /g/ for tech, /diy/ or /out/ for tools and gear, /ck/ for cooking and more. If you need to actively find a review for some item you want to buy it's probably not that great of an item imho.

I'm not entirely sure what that implies. It's in the consumer's best interest to check reviews of products when selecting something to buy. How else would you wade through competing options? Furthermore, 4chan has no search feature so I don't know how that's even equivalent.

There's a search function in the catalog that can fulltext search all threads.

/g/ has "an audiophile general" for example that comes with recommended places to buy, tierlists and reviews.

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#139

Post by 542354234235 » Fri, Jun 16, 2023, 5:58 PM UTC

anenefan wrote: post #130

542354234235 wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I know google results have dropped off the deep end, but framing reddit going dark as being of significant impact to search results is not honest. Yes, the result these people want is now inaccessible - it's not a new thing, results that are inaccessible are not unexpected. It's no different to the many deep searches I've done in the past and found what might have been useful results, were actually private unless o…

If people want to insist it really is a google issue ... sadly no matter how much they would like to think there's getting a prize for being right ... they are simply wrong. This could be a bookmarks issue, or a duckduckgo issue if they were so to be believed. I know people have the last couple or so years been focusing results using reddit, but it changes little - results are there, just for the moment those results…

>If people want to insist it really is a google issue ... sadly no matter how much they would like to think there's getting a prize for being right ... they are simply wrong. This could be a bookmarks issue, or a duckduckgo issue if they were so to be believed.

If the grocery store is relying on one supply chain for a large percent of their products, and they lose access to that supply chain, it is the grocers' issue. Saying "well technically it is a supply issue and could happen to any business" is missing the point when shoppers are displeased with what is available. Saying it is really reddit's fault is missing the point that Google SEOed itself into a position where they did not have a robust supply chain to relevant results people were searching for and now their results shelves are empty.

Re: Google is getting a lot worse because of the Reddit blackouts

#140

Post by anenefan » Sat, Jun 17, 2023, 4:32 AM UTC

542354234235 wrote: post #139

anenefan wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If people want to insist it really is a google issue ... sadly no matter how much they would like to think there's getting a prize for being right ... they are simply wrong. This could be a bookmarks issue, or a duckduckgo issue if they were so to be believed. I know people have the last couple or so years been focusing results using reddit, but it changes little - results are there, just for the moment those results…

>If people want to insist it really is a google issue ... sadly no matter how much they would like to think there's getting a prize for being right ... they are simply wrong. This could be a bookmarks issue, or a duckduckgo issue if they were so to be believed. If the grocery store is relying on one supply chain for a large percent of their products, and they lose access to that supply chain, it is the grocers' issue…

Your example isn't so great as it is. Getting closer would be saying a grocery store has fruit and vegies, but one prominent supplier known for prepackaged bite sized stuff the masses are used to consuming, has serious supply issues, however the store still has fruit and vegies, and in amongst what they have to offer, is some quality products - actually some are that much better, it's just people have either not noticed or shunned those products for not looking right.

However even that modified example, still doesn't really reflect on the problem the average user will insist what a great trick it was to use reddit to try and focus results. The average user unknowingly ignore a lot of other areas on the web that they could be using to focus what they're looking for. I guess that's one of the things A.I. will be able to do, something similar to what the old google search algorithm used to work where it seemed like google could work out of the number of search terms which word was a focus word (often a broad term to cover the field the rest might be common in.)

Like I stated in the last reply, a site going dark, it's not a google problem. Google's search has sucked for a few years ... and I know for all the hard to find or failed things I couldn't find since whenever, including reddit would have had zero effect.