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Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

floridapolitics.com

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Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#131

Post by emodendroket »

wesapien wrote: post #118
axus wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say complete BS, they do provide services. The problem is the monopoly practices which go unrestrained by the government.

They do but in this day and age the information asymmetry is not that huge or isn't there anymore (depending on the customer). They put up a good face to hook you in. My experience is that they become less enthusiastic (to say the least) once they know that their "sales" force powers will not work on you.

Yeah, having someone forward you MLS listings does not exactly justify a five-figure payment.

Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#132

Post by emodendroket »

randomdata wrote: post #108
calvinmorrison wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That provides an explanation for why the consumer might choose to buy from a dealership, but not a reason for why they must. The same could be said of basically anything. Consumers could choose to do anything. Suppliers anything. Now we are anarchists. yay! But we don't we live in a heavily regulated society, and what seems to work fairly well is having a dealership system. Now we could just remove the word dealers…

The same is said about everything, although we recognize that the concentration of capital enabled by giving certain actors in the economy an unequal advantage is more efficient for the economy as a whole than it is for everyone to be equal. But dealerships run contrary to that. They see distribution of capital away from the OEMs in an equalizing way. This is recognized and understood by lawmakers, which is why the T…

There’s no Tesla dealer to get angry and demand his governor take action against them.

Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#133

Post by emodendroket »

detourdog wrote: post #130
Gunnerhead wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Admittedly I haven’t looked into the bill, but I’m curious how it was written to carve them out without actually naming them.

Basically if there is an existing physical dealership one is excluded from seting up a virtual store.

Seems like this would create a temptation to spin off another company that just does EVs.

Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#134

Post by emodendroket »

chasd00 wrote: post #82
ChicagoBoy11 wrote: post #25

The single greatest politically backward thing in America is how the republican party has positioned itself as a pro free market party by, as best as I can tell, often championing precisely the opposite.

I live in Texas and we have the same laws but, yet, a "business friendly" reputation. There's no way to spin it, these kind of laws are the perfect example of an industry using bought politicians to block competition and protect their profits.

I mean it’s very pro-business to mandate that anyone who wants to buy a car has to give money to a business that’s not doing much of anything to deserve it. As long as you ignore idealistic notions of how markets work anyway.

Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#135

Post by emodendroket »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #59
revscat wrote: post #39

The auto dealership lobby is one of the most powerful in America. It leans heavily Republican, and Republicans dutifully propose legislations which protect these wealthy -- but almost wholly unnecessary -- middlemen. Slate had an expose [1] recently about them that is very enlightening. [1] https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/05/rich-republicans...

If it’s only Republicans why is it that heavily Democratic states like CA or NY also require dealerships in most cases? (CA is slightly better than NY but still doesn’t allow direct sales for 90% of vehicles)

An answer is in the linked article:

> That first taste of triumph only whetted the appetite. By the 1930s, with another war effort in the works, dealers went state by state. “At that time, there was lots of attention being paid to small business as having inherent virtue and the need to protect mom-and-pop shops,” Daniel Crane, a professor at the University of Michigan Law School, told me. “They embraced that story, and were extremely successful at getting legislatures in all 50 states to strictly regulate how cars were sold.” In 17 states, it is outright illegal for car manufacturers to sell cars at all.

Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#136

Post by ahahahahah »

ack210 wrote: post #85
CydeWeys wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Use just a little bit more cynicism and the actual reasoning becomes clear. Car dealership owners are one of the most reliable Republican constituencies. They make outrageous amounts of money through government-mandated rent-seeking and donate to Republican candidates 6-to-1. What we see here is nothing more than a quid-pro-quo, a handout to the dealership owners in exchange for their loyal monetary support over the…

I certainly don't mean to be defending either party, but the bill received bi-partisan support. Only 2 reps voted against it in the house, and it received unanimous support in the senate (which includes 12 democrats). https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill/2023/637/?Tab=VoteHist...

The 6-1 ratio means that democrats are also getting a lot of money from dealership owners. Then, given that both the house and senate there are 60+% republican and all the republicans will vote for it, anyone voted against it is just symbolic and then is that symbol worth upsetting their own backers?

I think a better way of understanding how the two parties feel about regulation of specific industries is to look into how different states regulate those different industries. This doesn't work well for very regional industries (think coal or I guess logging, for example), but car dealerships are everywhere.

Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#137

Post by emodendroket »

tclancy wrote: post #38
emodendroket wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dealership owners are a reliable Republican constituency. This kind of local bigwig was one of the most reliable Trump supporters and I'd guess the same is true for DeSantis. I mean you decide if that's a "good" reason but it is the real one.

Here's a recent article supporting that: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2023/05/rich-republicans...

Perhaps one of the wilder things I learned in this article is how many laws make it illegal for an automaker to set transparent prices. State mandated Three-Card Monte.

Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#138

Post by 111111IIIIIII »

judge2020 wrote: post #37
111111IIIIIII wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I'm not mistaken, the Ford Lightning EV pickup truck has only been available through direct sales online ordering.

That and the 2024 Mustang, but it's online reservation-based; the dealerships are still ultimately the ones buying the cars and reselling them to the end-user. I've heard stories of $20k or more markups even for reservation holders, since they know they'll be able to sell it if the original buyer walks away.

[flagged]

Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#139

Post by remich »

zeroonetwothree wrote: post #74

A unpopular view but… This is why overruling Lochner may not have been so great. We used to have “right to contract” and so the state couldn’t forbid me from purchasing an item that the seller wanted to sell me. But now it’s more like you get to participate in the economy only in the way that the legislature decides is acceptable.

Given that overruling Lochner lead to states actually being able to enact minimum wage laws I think the trade-off was worth it.

To reference a separate issue currently trending on HN -- were we still living in the "freedom to contract" era, there would be no way that states could ban non-compete agreements. At base, the problem inherent in the "freedom to contract" ideal is that in many situations the parties to a contract are not equal in bargaining power, and perverse results happen as a result of ignoring that reality.

Re: Gov. DeSantis signs bill banning most direct-to-consumer auto sales

#140

Post by foogazi »

j16sdiz wrote: post #107
jackmott42 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There used to be a very few number of car companies who held a lot of power over dealerships and used to abuse that power, which led to laws protecting dealers in ways that at least arguably made sense at the time, but don't anymore.

Do we now have lots of new car company? ( i don't think so ) Does car company now have less power? ( with subscription and OTA updates , I think they have more power than ever)

Euro / Asian auto companies exist now

All new electric car companies too

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