Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is probably what caused the leak
If there was a leak.
If there was a leak from this particular lab.
First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
641–650 of 792 posts
Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
#642I don't understand how long it got for humanity as a whole to see the elephant. New virus, research center close by, Chinese denying but not letting investigation. It's like seeing your your husband exiting a brothel but still need proof he cheated.
There were stranger coincidences in the past, and China always denies an investigation, so it's nothing special in this case.
Especially with Trump as president and we all remember the proofs of the WMDs in Iraq.
BTW there are multiple reasons to enter a brothel without cheating, they need electricians and plumbers too. According to you they all are proven cheaters.
>Sources within the US government say that three of the earliest people to become infected with SARS-CoV-2 were Ben Hu, Yu Ping, and Yan Zhu.
>When a source was asked how certain they were that these were the identities of the three WIV scientists who developed symptoms consistent with COVID-19 in the fall of 2019, we were told, “100%”
That isn't the same as saying one of the three was Patient Zero.
Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
#643I don't trust this article at all . > Sources within the US government say that three of the earliest people to become infected with SARS-CoV-2 were Ben Hu, Yu Ping, and Yan Zhu. All were members of the Wuhan lab suspected to have leaked the pandemic virus. > It is unclear who in the U.S. government had access to the intelligence about the sick WIV workers, how long they had it, and why it was not shared with the pub…
The Sunday Times, one of the oldest, most reliable newspapers in the world, says the same thing. It was probably a lab leak https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/inside-wuhan-lab-covid-pa...
> The Sunday Times, one of the oldest, most reliable newspapers in the world,
(cough cough bullshit cough) The Times is not quite as bad as the Torygraph, but it is a paper that has clearly been run directly to push the political views of Rupert Murdoch for the past three or four decades.
Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
#644Earlier quoted context omitted.
Could you remind us what the "non-lab-leak scenario" is again? To be clear, is your "likeliness" determined on whether we can find a creature that is more similar to covid than RaTG13 (we haven't) or something else?
The non lab leak scenario is just what it historically has been for ~70% of all viruses that we can trace (and probably the remainder as well, but we have no evidence): zoonotic jump.
The lab-leak scenario presumes zoonotic jump, too. Just rather than from something in the wild, it's from humanized (ACE2-transgenic) mice, which WIV was known to be using to study SARS-like Coronaviruses.
Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
#645Earlier quoted context omitted.
Except they haven't at all, lol By "the “conspiracy theorists” keep turning out to be right" do you mean like how Trump won the election in 2020, Biden is an actor, Obama has been hung for treason, people around the globe are dropping dead from the vaccine, etc.? These are the people I'm talking about when I speak about conspiracy theorists, people reasonably sitting on the fence when there is conflicting information…
You're remembering incorrectly or your experience was narrow. At facebook, censoring discussion of a possible lab leak was literal written policy which wasn't changed until June of 2021: https://reason.com/2021/06/04/lab-leak-misinformation-media-... And Twitter's files showed that the government (through multiple departments), members of Congress, and private companies were directly sending lists of hundreds of name…
From your own article, we learn that your claim is wrong:
> we will no longer remove the claim that COVID-19 is man-made or manufactured from our apps
This illustrates the problem nicely: because there was so much blatant lying about the virus being a bio weapon, people forget that there was all along more sober discussion about it being a possible leak of a natural virus and that those discussions were never banned.
You’re similarly misrepresenting what little was in the “Twitter files”, no doubt because terms of service violations are a lot less exciting.
Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
#646Earlier quoted context omitted.
Also... I mean, unless I've created a false memory, I specifically remember that the discussion at the time was about a the virus literally being a bio-weapon, and not actually the entirely plausible, accidental escape of a virus. I've always had a completely open mind about it, even if experts have repeatedly suggested that it's plausible, but unlikely. Those prattling on about how "people called us crazy" that it w…
People were being banned from twitter, youtube, facebook ext for mentioning lab leak... Now you want to gas light everyone saying "it was perfectly ok to talk about in 2020 That is not accurate at all...
Do you have any examples of someone who was banned simply for saying it could have leaked, as opposed to lying about it being a man-made bio weapon? The latter was common in right-wing circles because it excused their leaders’ incompetent handling of the pandemic and scientists pretty quickly established there weren’t signs of genetic modification, but throughout the process there were people discussing the possibility of a sample leaking through a lab safety failure.
Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
#647Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Substack do not pay them. "When we started Substack in mid-2017, the future for writers was frightening. [...] We started experimenting with advances, paying a small number of writers sums ranging from $10,000 to $30,000 to cover them for a few months as they got established on Substack. [...] With Substack Pro, we pay a writer an upfront sum to cover their first year on the platform. [...] In return for that finan…
Oh come on. Seriously. No. Come on. If we're discussing Freddy De Boer this is relevant. He was on that deal. Which they won't renew and can't easily withdraw fwiw. Kinda different to being fired by Rupert Murdoch. Or having your story spiked, when it was 100% true but went against "the narrative" when that narrative was also false. Do you have evidence that Taibbi is on this deal and has lied about it? Because that'…
Huh. I didn't know Taibbi made a big deal about not taking the salary up front. I misread your comment to mean "substack doesn't pay any of its writers, they all make their money off subscription" and couldn't resist the citation.
Carry on.
Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
#648There seems to have been covid cases in Europe in last-quarter 2019, which suggests it was there or brought there before the outbreak that made the news in 2020. Doesn’t rule out leaks and crossovers, just moves them elsewhere or else when. Viral pneumonia was occurring, symptoms turned out to match covid and nobody was saving or testing blood samples. Outside of a few places in Dec. But people had aggressive, surpri…
That theory is total nonsense. Covid was extremely infectious, and had severe symptoms. It could not have stayed under the radar for that long. It was also unlikely to fizzle out: once a country had one case, it would turn into thousands of cases within a month. If Covid had been circulating that widely that early, the trajectory of the disase in December 2019-March 2020 would have been totally different. There would…
There were no tests except for blood samples preserved by hospitals. People are referring to symptoms that were different than flu, viral pneumonia and (looking back) showed similarity to covid. Might have been a different viral pneumonia as it didn’t respond to antibiotics.
Recall exponential growth starts slowly and it was flu season.
https://www.redcross.org/about-us/news-and-events/press-rele...
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/03008916209747...
https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10654-020-00716-2
Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
#649Earlier quoted context omitted.
Interestingly, you did much the same thing I did despite my belief that the virus arose naturally (seemed reasonable since viruses have risen naturally for give or take a billion years). I practiced the extreme social distancing for about a year since the vaccines were not available and wore KN95 masks the rare and brief times I was indoors with anyone else. I did start getting the vaccines at some point in 2021 thou…
> Interestingly, you did much the same thing I did despite my belief that the virus arose naturally Except they decided not to get the injection (so called 'vaccination'), while you did. That's a crucial difference in the eyes of most (on both sides) so I wouldn't agree that they did 'much the same thing' as you.
I didn't think it was a terribly significant difference. Why would you think so?
Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources
#650Earlier quoted context omitted.
The non lab leak scenario is just what it historically has been for ~70% of all viruses that we can trace (and probably the remainder as well, but we have no evidence): zoonotic jump.
The lab-leak scenario presumes zoonotic jump, too. Just rather than from something in the wild, it's from humanized (ACE2-transgenic) mice, which WIV was known to be using to study SARS-like Coronaviruses.
SARS-like CoronaViruses != COVID19. All cows are animals. Not all animals are cows.