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First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

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Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#551

Post by jsnell »

TechBro8615 wrote: post #92
jb12 wrote: post #30

> "If you knew that this was likely a lab-enhanced pathogen, there are so many things you could have done differently" I'm curious - if we knew in March 2020 that covid came from a lab, what _would_ we have done differently?

I had personally decided by April 2020 that there was sufficient information for me to believe that Covid was a lab-enhanced pathogen that was accidentally released by researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. My "source" was mainly common sense (the simplest solution is usually the right one, and guilty people doth protest too much), an understanding of probability (there is a lab studying the pathogen right n…

So, what you're saying is that we indeed would have done nothing differently?

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#552

Post by nso »

duderific wrote: post #255
nso wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I got ill in a way I'd never really gotten ill before, in November/December 2019 -- after having travelled from Mexico to Norway. I was barely out of bed for the month I was in the country. I thought it might be dengue, but one of the first days there I got checked out in the hospital -- and they said I had an unidentified viral infection, but not dengue. After being released I got incredibly ill, but not much you ca…

I had a really bad cold-like illness in late November 2019, which left behind a severe sore throat which lasted about three weeks. It was notable because it wouldn't go away, to the point where I went to both urgent care and my primary doctor on separate occasions (I'm not one to go to the doctor unless I really need to.) Both times they took a look at my throat, proclaimed it to be a viral infection, and sent me on…

Well to be fair it wasn't known at the time

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#553

Post by dang »

dzader wrote: post #149
StanislavPetrov wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The first thing we would have done would have been to put an immediate halt to all "gain of function" research - including all of the "gain of function" research that is currently ongoing (that Fauci and his ilk insist isn't really "gain of function" research). This would include severe penalties for those who funneled money to third party researchers. Instead, the global health authorities peddled the absurd "wet ma…

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Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#554

Post by memefrog »

mullingitover wrote: post #535
memefrog wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nobody is saying that China caused the pandemic intentionally.

You'd think nobody would be enough of a wacko to say this. You'd be wrong, there was at least one wacko saying it.[1] [1] https://www.forbes.com/sites/sarahhansen/2020/06/18/trump-su...

He said they may have done so and that there's a chance it was intentional, which is entirely true and quite a reasonable thing to say. He acknowledges that it's unlikely, and he doesn't think that they would do that or that they did. But it is absolutely possible. You'd have to be crazy to think it wasn't possible.

The same article says:

> As the pandemic began spreading in earnest in the United States, President Trump and other high-ranking officials in his administration began to circulate a controversial theory that the coronavirus originated in a lab in Wuhan, China, though there is no evidence supporting this claim either.

...which is a lie. There was evidence supporting that claim even back in June 2020. The mere fact of the lab's existence in the city at the time and the subject matter that it was studying is evidence. It is not enough evidence of its own, but it is (circumstantial) evidence. People get convicted of crimes based on circumstantial evidence every day, and rightly so.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#555

Post by hackinthebochs »

stubybubs wrote: post #181
TechBro8615 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I had personally decided by April 2020 that there was sufficient information for me to believe that Covid was a lab-enhanced pathogen that was accidentally released by researchers at the Wuhan Institute of Virology. My "source" was mainly common sense (the simplest solution is usually the right one, and guilty people doth protest too much), an understanding of probability (there is a lab studying the pathogen right n…

> My "source" was mainly common sense (the simplest solution is usually the right one https://www.cdc.gov/onehealth/basics/zoonotic-diseases.html 75% of all new infectious diseases come from animals. Isn't the simplest solution that COVID also came from animals? Just because it was a bad one doesn't make it less likely. Where did smallpox come from? Polio? Spanish flu? Is it strange that the lab was near the wet mark…

>Isn't the simplest solution that COVID also came from animals?

No, you don't get to leave information out of consideration and call your conclusions the simplest theory. Most viruses are from animal spillovers. Also SARS has been leaked from labs on more than one occasion.

>It might be more strange if it was nowhere near a wet market.

It's not strange that it was near a wet market. It is strange that it was near a lab studying coronaviruses that was at least thinking of doing GoF research of the kind needed to create COVID-19 if indeed it was created.

The spillover theory leaves too many unexplained coincidences for it to be the simplest theory.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#556

Post by cscurmudgeon »

rnk wrote: post #349
epicureanideal wrote: post #324

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in many US states, including in the south, and I have not met very many of these ignorant, xenophopic, scapegoat-seeking people that everyone claims to be worried about. Seems like those people, if they exist in any significant numbers, are just an excuse to lie to the public "for their own good".

If you didn't meet those people, then either you're ignorant yourself -(with all due respect), or you are not looking closely. I'm from the south. I went to high school there, I got my college degree from there. I live there from the time I was born until my mid-20s. The south is full of racist, horrible people, it was common in my youth to hear people talk badly about Jewish people, people dropped the n word. I hear…

> The south is full of racist, horrible people

Amazing these kinds of comments are allowed here. Imagine if someone made a similar comment about any other group other than "the south".

For the record, I am a brown immigrant living on the West coast.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#557

Post by cscurmudgeon »

ethbr0 wrote: post #276
cscurmudgeon wrote: post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can you imagine how many scarce resources would have been mispent if SARS-CoV-2 had begun with worldwide knowledge that China was responsible? OTOH if we knew that China was responsible, won't the future be better served by putting safeguards to prevent a worse thing happening again?

I'm of two minds on that. On one hand: yes, more data will inform future technical approaches and procedures. On the other hand: no, people are technically ignorant, xenophobic, and more willing to scapegoat and project anger than reflect on their own behavior.

> On the other hand: no, people are technically ignorant, xenophobic, and more willing to scapegoat and project anger than reflect on their own behavior.

Doesn't matter. Truth should be prioritized first. There are mechanisms to deal with Xenophobia and hate and those should be strengthened.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#558

Post by etempleton »

It has always seemed to me far too coincidental that a lab studying coronaviruses was located at the epicenter of a coronavirus outbreak. Sometimes there are coincidences, but if you are looking for the most obvious answer it has always been right there and I never understood why it was dismissed so easily.

With that being said, I don’t buy into any conspiracy theories about this being intentional or anything else. There were poor controls and a virus mutated.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#559

Post by topspin »

jb12 wrote: post #30

> "If you knew that this was likely a lab-enhanced pathogen, there are so many things you could have done differently" I'm curious - if we knew in March 2020 that covid came from a lab, what _would_ we have done differently?

Not deplatforming people for discussing it would be the most visible difference.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#560

Post by bagacrap »

ada1981 wrote: post #492

This is the sort of thing that should bankrupt a country, and they should be required to make up for the damage their negligence inflicted on the world population. The Chinese cannot be trusted with power.

Uhh, what does a random Chinese citizen have to do with the lab leak? Bankrupting a country would mainly punish a bunch of innocent peasants.
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