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First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

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Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#141

Post by pessimizer »

scoofy wrote: post #18
indigodaddy wrote: post #7

‘Said Metzl, “Had US government officials including Dr. Fauci stated from day one that a COVID-19 research-related origin was a very real possibility, and made clear that we had little idea what viruses were being held at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, what work was being done there, and who was doing that work, our national and global conversations would have been dramatically different. The time has come for a fu…

Also... I mean, unless I've created a false memory, I specifically remember that the discussion at the time was about a the virus literally being a bio-weapon, and not actually the entirely plausible, accidental escape of a virus. I've always had a completely open mind about it, even if experts have repeatedly suggested that it's plausible, but unlikely. Those prattling on about how "people called us crazy" that it w…

> the discussion at the time was about a the virus literally being a bio-weapon,

This was the part that media outlets and government seized upon to call any discussion of the lab leak theory racist. There was no "discussion" about covid being a "bio-weapon," it was a bunch of anti-China hawks repeating it over and over again based on absolutely nothing. They were so obviously nationalist anti-Chinese that the theory that covid happened because Chinese people are dirty and eat weird diseased things was able to be sold as the not-racist theory.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#142

Post by NovemberWhiskey »

nso wrote: post #27
jleyank wrote: post #2

There seems to have been covid cases in Europe in last-quarter 2019, which suggests it was there or brought there before the outbreak that made the news in 2020. Doesn’t rule out leaks and crossovers, just moves them elsewhere or else when. Viral pneumonia was occurring, symptoms turned out to match covid and nobody was saving or testing blood samples. Outside of a few places in Dec. But people had aggressive, surpri…

I got ill in a way I'd never really gotten ill before, in November/December 2019 -- after having travelled from Mexico to Norway. I was barely out of bed for the month I was in the country. I thought it might be dengue, but one of the first days there I got checked out in the hospital -- and they said I had an unidentified viral infection, but not dengue. After being released I got incredibly ill, but not much you ca…

I got a worse-than-ever-experienced respiratory infection after a trip to Europe arounds Thanksgiving 2019 as well: I wasn't well enough to ski even a month later and had mysterious lung-scarring on my X-rays which in retrospect looks very much like an early Covid infection too.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#143

Post by twoWhlsGud »

jedmeyers wrote: post #119
unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In 2020 Luc Montagnier identified Covid-19 as a lab creation and predicted that, because the original strain was unnatural, later strains would be less problematic as the virus reverted to its true (less problematic) nature. In contrast, the public health conversation was about a permanent threat and how much worse can it get and generally government running around hair-on-fire. Maybe the initial quarantine recommend…

> because the original strain was unnatural, later strains would be less problematic as the virus reverted to its true (less problematic) nature Is it possible for someone to speed up this process in a lab somewhere, like South Africa, and release the less problematic version to the public to achieve the herd immunity quicker?

I doubt it. However, luckily for us someone has already invented called a vaccine that is far safer and plays a similar role in achieving herd immunity ; )

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#144

Post by btilly »

qclibre23 wrote: post #75
treis wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most popular human origin theory was a lab leak. It was easier to argue against the crazies claiming a bioweapon so that's what most did and that's what got the most press. But the primary human origin story was an accidental release.

Accidental release and bioweapons research are not incompatible.

Bioweapons research and got infected in a lab that was at BSL 2 ARE incompatible. If you expect it to be able to infect humans, you are going to take more precautions.

The theory here is that they were doing research on animal models and didn't think that humans could catch it from mice. Therefore they took too few precautions, and it escaped through them.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#145

Post by EdwardDiego »

unyttigfjelltol wrote: post #110
jb12 wrote: post #30

> "If you knew that this was likely a lab-enhanced pathogen, there are so many things you could have done differently" I'm curious - if we knew in March 2020 that covid came from a lab, what _would_ we have done differently?

In 2020 Luc Montagnier identified Covid-19 as a lab creation and predicted that, because the original strain was unnatural, later strains would be less problematic as the virus reverted to its true (less problematic) nature. In contrast, the public health conversation was about a permanent threat and how much worse can it get and generally government running around hair-on-fire. Maybe the initial quarantine recommend…

Well, that logic fell down with the Delta variant.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#146

Post by stainablesteel »

throwaway5752 wrote: post #137
muglug wrote: post #77

[flagged]

Michael Shellenberger has done the same - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Shellenberger has details, and see criticism of the Breakthrough Institute. Alex Gutentag seems to be a contributing editor to Compact, writing things like https://compactmag.com/article/how-mask-mandates-defaced-us . A brief review of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_(American_magazine) shows a lot of familiar names of people that p…

> It misleading presents that the furin cleavage site had to come from gain of function

it did. this isn't debatable anymore. there's literally grants written by american scientists proposing this pre-covid, the lab in wuhan was doing the legwork.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#147

Post by kelnos »

TacticalCoder wrote: post #49
scoofy wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also... I mean, unless I've created a false memory, I specifically remember that the discussion at the time was about a the virus literally being a bio-weapon, and not actually the entirely plausible, accidental escape of a virus. I've always had a completely open mind about it, even if experts have repeatedly suggested that it's plausible, but unlikely. Those prattling on about how "people called us crazy" that it w…

> I mean, unless I've created a false memory I'm pretty sure your memory is very faulty. Of all those saying it could be a lab leak, very few were talking it being a bio-weapon. > Those prattling on about how "people called us crazy" that it was a WIV lab leak seem to completely misremember what was actually being discussed in April-May of 2020 Not at all. You are trying to rewrite history. Here's the bill from Congr…

Not disagreeing with the overall premise, but:

> I'm saying that there's a Congress bill from march 2023 saying there's reason to believe it was a lab-leak.

Congress writing up a bill asserting stuff like this isn't exactly something I consider persuasive either way.

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#148

Post by dahfizz »

scoofy wrote: post #18
indigodaddy wrote: post #7

‘Said Metzl, “Had US government officials including Dr. Fauci stated from day one that a COVID-19 research-related origin was a very real possibility, and made clear that we had little idea what viruses were being held at the Wuhan Institute of Virology, what work was being done there, and who was doing that work, our national and global conversations would have been dramatically different. The time has come for a fu…

Also... I mean, unless I've created a false memory, I specifically remember that the discussion at the time was about a the virus literally being a bio-weapon, and not actually the entirely plausible, accidental escape of a virus. I've always had a completely open mind about it, even if experts have repeatedly suggested that it's plausible, but unlikely. Those prattling on about how "people called us crazy" that it w…

You fell for the straw man.

The media argued against the most outrageous and conspiratorial version of the lab leak theory to discredit it. They successfully made you associate lab leak with racist conspiracy

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#149

Post by dzader »

StanislavPetrov wrote: post #52
jb12 wrote: post #30

> "If you knew that this was likely a lab-enhanced pathogen, there are so many things you could have done differently" I'm curious - if we knew in March 2020 that covid came from a lab, what _would_ we have done differently?

The first thing we would have done would have been to put an immediate halt to all "gain of function" research - including all of the "gain of function" research that is currently ongoing (that Fauci and his ilk insist isn't really "gain of function" research). This would include severe penalties for those who funneled money to third party researchers. Instead, the global health authorities peddled the absurd "wet ma…

[flagged]

Re: First people sickened by Covid-19 were scientists at WIV: US government sources

#150

Post by hilbert42 »

hotpotamus wrote: post #51
jb12 wrote: post #30

> "If you knew that this was likely a lab-enhanced pathogen, there are so many things you could have done differently" I'm curious - if we knew in March 2020 that covid came from a lab, what _would_ we have done differently?

This is what I've always wondered - would those who downplayed the virus and eschewed masks and vaccines have changed their tune?

Almost certainty, the population already had a sense about the spread of natural viruses and their dangers—whether valid or not. Launched from a lab is a different ballgame altogether and not having experienced the problem before people would have been much more wary.
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